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Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method

Apparently, it is common wisdom around here and on credit blogs to carry a 0% utilization on all your cards but one and carry a balance on that one odd duck.  However, the exact implementation details about this seems to be wanting. So, my question is does this mean paying off the balance in full by the statement closing date on all the cards but the odd duck?  And on the odd duck card, paying off the balance in full by the due date as opposed to literally carrying over a balance and paying interest charges?

Message 1 of 22
21 REPLIES 21
DeeBee78
Valued Contributor

Re: Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method


@Anonymous wrote:

Apparently, it is common wisdom around here and on credit blogs to carry a 0% utilization on all your cards but one and carry a balance on that one odd duck.  However, the exact implementation details about this seems to be wanting. So, my question is does this mean paying off the balance in full by the statement closing date on all the cards but the odd duck?  And on the odd duck card, paying off the balance in full by the due date as opposed to literally carrying over a balance and paying interest charges?


You simply need to worry about the balance that is reported to the credit bureaus. On most cards, the balance that is reported is the statement balance, which means you need to pay the card down before the statement closing date. 

 

You don't leave 10% of the balance due to pay. Ideally you're continuing to use the card, and that 1-10% utilization is coming from new charges, not an existing balance. 

 

 

Message 2 of 22
Chris679
Established Contributor

Re: Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method


@Anonymous wrote:

Apparently, it is common wisdom around here and on credit blogs to carry a 0% utilization on all your cards but one and carry a balance on that one odd duck.  However, the exact implementation details about this seems to be wanting. So, my question is does this mean paying off the balance in full by the statement closing date on all the cards but the odd duck?  And on the odd duck card, paying off the balance in full by the due date as opposed to literally carrying over a balance and paying interest charges?


Micro managing the balances that you report is way too much work.  PIF at the due date and let any pending transactions report so you are showing some usage.  Managing your credit does not need to be a pain in the ass. 

Message 3 of 22
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method

I agree with Chris, there is no need to micro manage your credit like this. Unless you are about to app for something, but even then it won't make a big difference. However, what you're looking for here is to pay off those cards before your statement closes...and then let the 1 card report with a balance.

Message 4 of 22
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method

One of the reasons I'm interested in this method is because I'm being dinged by FICO for having too many accounts with a balance, even though my overall utilization is only 2%-3%.  So it seems like there is going to be a conflict between that ding and the minimum activity necessary to prevent the cards from being closed.  I suspect I wouldn't worry about this normally, but I'm curious to see how high I can get my FICO score and I also plan to CLI and CLOC after the next AR, so want it to be high as possible.

 

How about getting extra points for making more than one payment, i.e. splitting the PIF amount?  Is that still a valid strategy?

 

Message 5 of 22
DeeBee78
Valued Contributor

Re: Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method


@Anonymous wrote:

One of the reasons I'm interested in this method is because I'm being dinged by FICO for having too many accounts with a balance, even though my overall utilization is only 2%-3%.  So it seems like there is going to be a conflict between that ding and the minimum activity necessary to prevent the cards from being closed.  I suspect I wouldn't worry about this normally, but I'm curious to see how high I can get my FICO score and I also plan to CLI and CLOC after the next AR, so want it to be high as possible.

 

How about getting extra points for making more than one payment, i.e. splitting the PIF amount?  Is that still a valid strategy?

 


What I told you (10% utilization reporting on one card) is what you need to do for maximum scoring potential. 

Message 6 of 22
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method


@Anonymous wrote:

One of the reasons I'm interested in this method is because I'm being dinged by FICO for having too many accounts with a balance, even though my overall utilization is only 2%-3%.  So it seems like there is going to be a conflict between that ding and the minimum activity necessary to prevent the cards from being closed.  I suspect I wouldn't worry about this normally, but I'm curious to see how high I can get my FICO score and I also plan to CLI and CLOC after the next AR, so want it to be high as possible.

 

How about getting extra points for making more than one payment, i.e. splitting the PIF amount?  Is that still a valid strategy?

 


Where are you getting this info? Is it from the list of 4 Reasons that FICO gives you for why your score is where it is?

Here's a secret: As long as your score is something less than 850, they have to give you three or four reason codes to "splain" it to you. Even if those reason codes are not really making much of a difference.

 

You have low utilization. You have not missed any payments, you probably have not opened a new account in the last year (or that may be one on the list of Reason Codes), and with the low utilization your borrowing ratio is low.

 

That means they have to reach over in the corner to find SOMETHING to tell you, and "too many cards with balances" comes up.

 

I'd suggest monitoring your score, checking how many cards you let report a balance, and see whether it really makes much of a difference. I'm at the point now, with 75% to 79% of my card showing some balance (18 of 24 or 19 of 24 showing some sort of balance, 6 or 5 with no balance) and each time that swings by 1 card going from reporting to not, or not reporting to reporting, it results in a 2 point swing on TU, a 4 point swing on EQ, no change on slow-moving EX. Utilization is stable, last app nearly a year ago, only the number of cards is the real moving factor in my scores right now.

 

Yes, you can "optimize" by paying all cards before statement cut except one with a low balance, but "optimize" is specific to a file, and when it's already low utilization, that card count thing is probably not a large number of points.

 

But you have to try it yourself to see what the effect will be, then ask yourself whether the extra work involved is worth it to you. If it is, fine, go for it. I'm at 805 - 816 depending on bureau, with 18 cards reporting, and overall a single digit utilization, with two cards at over 30% utilization, though less than 40%. So that's why I get skeptical about the benefit of "all cards at zero but one". The bigger factors in anyones' score are, how long have you been making on-time payments, is overall utilization less than 10%, and are individual cards less than 50% utilization.

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 7 of 22
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method


@Anonymous wrote:

One of the reasons I'm interested in this method is because I'm being dinged by FICO for having too many accounts with a balance, even though my overall utilization is only 2%-3%.  So it seems like there is going to be a conflict between that ding and the minimum activity necessary to prevent the cards from being closed.  I suspect I wouldn't worry about this normally, but I'm curious to see how high I can get my FICO score and I also plan to CLI and CLOC after the next AR, so want it to be high as possible.

 

How about getting extra points for making more than one payment, i.e. splitting the PIF amount?  Is that still a valid strategy?

 


Why would it be closed? Any charge/payment you make is considered activity. Not having a balance report would not in any way have your account at risk of being closed due to inactivity. I honestly think you are worrying way too much about this. Your score also won't be the only factor in your CLI decision.

Message 8 of 22
SkyCommander
Frequent Contributor

Re: Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method

So in my case with my 5 cards use them as I would normally but PIF before the statement cuts but leave 1 card report 1-10% Util? That card should be the one I use most often?

Message 9 of 22
austinguy907
Valued Contributor

Re: Optimal Payoff In Full (PIF) Method

The optimal method is to setup autopay for the statement balance.  Use the cards you like and then just let the autopay take care of it.  There's no real reason to invest time or thought into it since the only things that matter are time and on time payments.  If you're wanting the max points on your scores then just keep it under 10% of the limit per card and try to minimize the amount of cards in use. However make sure you don't let cards go dormant for more than 6 months as they don't score as many points.  Playing the game of multiple payments and using a pivot table is too much work for a number.  Of course if you have a larger goal in mind like applying for a loan on an auto or home then you have some benefit for maxing the points.  Otherwise on a CLI it's just stupid since lenders look at tons of other factors like age of the account, spend pattern, your income, your assets, payment history, and so on.  Score is just a flag if it drops significantly that they need to take a closer look at things and HP you before CLD or closing your account for what they might find.  Now breaking 720/740/760/800 on a mortgage could be a .25-.75% difference which could be a couple of hundred a month more or less and/or being able to get PMI or put a full 20% down payment on the property.  

 

*mic drop*

Message 10 of 22
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