Questions about scorecard & bins

[Pucelle]

I am looking to refinance my mortage from a ridiculously high 4.875% 30 year mortgage to a 5/1 or 5/5 Arm depending on what I can qualify for.  I had some "issues" last year when I went through my 1st mortgage process and am working with a lawyer to remedy.  In the mean time I had to wait for the multiple pulls to be consolidated and get to be over a year old (currently have 16-18).  My most recent real scores are as follows:

TU FICO 8 (Discover) 677 on 9/26 {serious deliquency & time since deliquincy too short}
EX FICO 8 (AMEX) 702 on 9/16 {derog collection & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}
EQ FICO® Bankcard 8 (Citibank) 738 on 9/22 {serious deliquency & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}

At time of these scores 5 cards were above 40% utilization and all of the cards had some sort of balance.  I was able to increase my overall limits by $6.9k and before the increase my overall utilization was around 25% according to Credit Karma.  I've noticed that none of the places that report overall utilization match my numbers so I tend to use those instead of mine.  Theres $5-25k more credit available according to everyone else than I actually have and I've given up trying to figure out where it comes from.

My current status is as follows but hasn't yet been reported:

DiscoverIT        $17.9k    58% (+3k)
Citi Dividend    $12.03k    35% (+1.5k)
Citi ThankU        $10.66k    0% (+1.4k)
ACU                $10k    86%
Chase Freedom    $7.9k    0%
Citi LOC        $5.9k    0%
AMEX BCE        $3k        0% (+1k)
US Bank            $1k        0%

Authorized User    $15k    27%

3 collections
    1 paid ($50)    3/2012
    1 $550            11/2014
    1 $218            6/2015

Late
    1 30 Day    11/2011
    1 30 & 60     5 & 6/2009
    2 60 & 1 90 1-3/2012   <--not sure why or when it changed from 30, 60, 90 to 2 60s & 90

Charge Off 2009 or 2011 {no amount or date, account closed in 2009, last payment was 2011}

Given that my overall utilization numbers were already in the 20's I'm guessing that the individual utilizations on the cards were hurting my score.  Now I have 5 accounts at 0%, 2 under 40%, & 2 above 40% {w/one above 80%).  I also completed a balance transfer so that I can close my Discover Personal Loan which had a monthly payment of about $360.  I know that installment loans are treated diferently, but I wanted reduce my debt-to-income ratio.

I've been reading about the bins & scorecards and have been trying to get a feel for where I sit and the best way to increase my score.  Since 2 of my scores mention utilization, would that mean the reductions I was able to do on the orther cards would be fine? Or is the elephant in the room the card @ 86% utilization?

Since my lates are so old, are they still majorly effecting my credit score aside from putting me in a different scorecard range?  I know that I'm in one of the 4 dirty scorecard since I have collections and a 90-day.

[StartingOver10]

Yes, the elephant in the room is the card at 86% utilization. Pay that one down/off if possible. FICO counts not only your gross utilization across all cards, but you are dinged for every card that carry's a balance. 

Consider pulling your own mortgage scores before you make appliction to refinance your mortgage. They are now available here on the 3B reports.  Wait until you have paid down/off your revolving before you pull your mortgage scores. The lenders don't use FICO 8, they use http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Mortgage-Loans/FICO-scores-used-for-mortgage-and-where-to-obtain-the...

[Thomas_Thumb]

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Pucelle wrote:

I am looking to refinance my mortage from a ridiculously high 4.875% 30 year mortgage to a 5/1 or 5/5 Arm depending on what I can qualify for.  I had some "issues" last year when I went through my 1st mortgage process and am working with a lawyer to remedy.  In the mean time I had to wait for the multiple pulls to be consolidated and get to be over a year old (currently have 16-18).  My most recent real scores are as follows:

TU FICO 8 (Discover) 677 on 9/26 {serious deliquency & time since deliquincy too short}
EX FICO 8 (AMEX) 702 on 9/16 {derog collection & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}
EQ FICO® Bankcard 8 (Citibank) 738 on 9/22 {serious deliquency & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}

At time of these scores 5 cards were above 40% utilization and all of the cards had some sort of balance.  I was able to increase my overall limits by $6.9k and before the increase my overall utilization was around 25% according to Credit Karma.  I've noticed that none of the places that report overall utilization match my numbers so I tend to use those instead of mine.  Theres $5-25k more credit available according to everyone else than I actually have and I've given up trying to figure out where it comes from.

My current status is as follows but hasn't yet been reported:

3 collections
    1 paid ($50)    3/2012
    1 $550            11/2014
    1 $218            6/2015

Late
    1 30 Day    11/2011
    1 30 & 60     5 & 6/2009
    2 60 & 1 90 1-3/2012   <--not sure why or when it changed from 30, 60, 90 to 2 60s & 90

Charge Off 2009 or 2011 {no amount or date, account closed in 2009, last payment was 2011}

Given that my overall utilization numbers were already in the 20's I'm guessing that the individual utilizations on the cards were hurting my score.  Now I have 5 accounts at 0%, 2 under 40%, & 2 above 40% {w/one above 80%).  I also completed a balance transfer so that I can close my Discover Personal Loan which had a monthly payment of about $360.  I know that installment loans are treated diferently, but I wanted reduce my debt-to-income ratio.

I've been reading about the bins & scorecards and have been trying to get a feel for where I sit and the best way to increase my score.  Since 2 of my scores mention utilization, would that mean the reductions I was able to do on the orther cards would be fine? Or is the elephant in the room the card @ 86% utilization? - Not so much

Since my lates are so old, are they still majorly effecting my credit score aside from putting me in a different scorecard range?  I know that I'm in one of the 4 dirty scorecard since I have collections and a 90-day.

---

Fico mortgage scores are more sensitive to # cards reporting a balance and individual card UT% than Fico 08 or Fico 08 bankcard. If you are looking to refinance consider:

1) Reducing the number of cards you have that are reporting a balance to just one (not including the AU card). 

2) Try to shift balance to a single high CL card and keep reported UT on that card to under 50% of CL (under 30% may be better but under 50% should be ok).

3) Bring aggregate (overall) credit card UT down 9% if possible. If not, try to keep aggregate UT under 20%.

4) As StartingOver 10 suggests, purchase a myFICO 3B report/score so you know your mortgage scores. It may be best to hold off on this until after reducing # cards reporting and bring down your individual and aggregate CC UT%.

Note: The 86% UT on a single scorecard may have a 10 point negative impact on your score but probably not more than that.

Fico 08 classic has 12 scorecards and Fico 04 mortgage has 10 scorecards. Regardless of your profile's assigned scorecard, reducing # cards reporting a balance to one or two is best for scoring. If you have a credit report/score, under the heading: whats hurting your score look for "too many open accounts carrying a balance". 

Not sure how long lates negatively affect score but I believe impact tapers off significantly after 2 to 3 years. Given the age, your lates should not be a major factor [except perhaps the 60 and 90 lates from 2012 and the fact there are multiple occurrances]. Also, a 30 day late does not necessarily put someone in a dirty scorecard.  Recent collections on file are the primary factor holding down your score and do result in a dirty scorecard assignment. 

Others can shed more light on strategy for paying off collections and how to get them removed from your file.

[Pucelle]

Since 2 of the 3 CRA report that my utilization on my credit reports is impacting my score, once the incresed credit limits and the reduction of cards showing a balance post to my credit report; they should go up.  I don't think any rebucketing will happen since I'm still in the 20-25% overal utilization range.  I guess as the ACU card's utilzation rates goes down it will maybe cause me to be rebucketed as then my individual utilizations will also be down.

Is that how I should think of the notifications with the credit scores?  Adressing what's noted will have the most impact?

---

@Pucelle wrote:

TU FICO 8 (Discover) 677 on 9/26 {serious deliquency & time since deliquincy too short}
EX FICO 8 (AMEX) 702 on 9/16 {derog collection & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}
EQ FICO® Bankcard 8 (Citibank) 738 on 9/22 {serious deliquency & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}

DiscoverIT        $17.9k    58% (+3k)
Citi Dividend    $12.03k    35% (+1.5k)
Citi ThankU        $10.66k    0% (+1.4k)
ACU                $10k    86%
Chase Freedom    $7.9k    0%
Citi LOC        $5.9k    0%
AMEX BCE        $3k        0% (+1k)
US Bank            $1k        0%

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@Pucelle wrote:

Since 2 of the 3 CRA report that my utilization on my credit reports is impacting my score, once the incresed credit limits and the reduction of cards showing a balance post to my credit report; they should go up.  I don't think any rebucketing will happen since I'm still in the 20-25% overal utilization range.  I guess as the ACU card's utilzation rates goes down it will maybe cause me to be rebucketed as then my individual utilizations will also be down.

Is that how I should think of the notifications with the credit scores?  Adressing what's noted will have the most impact?

---

@Pucelle wrote:

TU FICO 8 (Discover) 677 on 9/26 {serious deliquency & time since deliquincy too short}
EX FICO 8 (AMEX) 702 on 9/16 {derog collection & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}
EQ FICO® Bankcard 8 (Citibank) 738 on 9/22 {serious deliquency & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}

DiscoverIT        $17.9k    58% (+3k)
Citi Dividend    $12.03k    35% (+1.5k)
Citi ThankU        $10.66k    0% (+1.4k)
ACU                $10k    86%
Chase Freedom    $7.9k    0%
Citi LOC        $5.9k    0%
AMEX BCE        $3k        0% (+1k)
US Bank            $1k        0%

---

Yes, generally what is listed are the factors affecting your score the most. However, there can be magnitudes of difference in how much each affects score.

Your aggregate utilization is a little high and dropping it to below 9% will help. You should realize optimal score with only one card reporting a balance at a time. On any card that does report, its reported utilization should be under 30% and preferrably under 10%. The optimization tactics might buy you 15 to 20 points. The game changers are the derog and serious deliquencies.

P.S. Utilization % is not a re-bucketing (change of scorecard) factor as far as I know. Changes in UT% move your score up/down in your profiles assigned bucket (scorecard)

[jamie123]

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@Pucelle wrote:

I am looking to refinance my mortage from a ridiculously high 4.875% 30 year mortgage to a 5/1 or 5/5 Arm depending on what I can qualify for.  I had some "issues" last year when I went through my 1st mortgage process and am working with a lawyer to remedy.  In the mean time I had to wait for the multiple pulls to be consolidated and get to be over a year old (currently have 16-18).  My most recent real scores are as follows:

TU FICO 8 (Discover) 677 on 9/26 {serious deliquency & time since deliquincy too short}
EX FICO 8 (AMEX) 702 on 9/16 {derog collection & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}
EQ FICO® Bankcard 8 (Citibank) 738 on 9/22 {serious deliquency & utilization ratio on revolving accounts}

At time of these scores 5 cards were above 40% utilization and all of the cards had some sort of balance.  I was able to increase my overall limits by $6.9k and before the increase my overall utilization was around 25% according to Credit Karma.  I've noticed that none of the places that report overall utilization match my numbers so I tend to use those instead of mine.  Theres $5-25k more credit available according to everyone else than I actually have and I've given up trying to figure out where it comes from.

My current status is as follows but hasn't yet been reported:

DiscoverIT        $17.9k    58% (+3k)
Citi Dividend    $12.03k    35% (+1.5k)
Citi ThankU        $10.66k    0% (+1.4k)
ACU                $10k    86%
Chase Freedom    $7.9k    0%
Citi LOC        $5.9k    0%
AMEX BCE        $3k        0% (+1k)
US Bank            $1k        0%

Authorized User    $15k    27%

3 collections
    1 paid ($50)    3/2012
    1 $550            11/2014
    1 $218            6/2015

Late
    1 30 Day    11/2011
    1 30 & 60     5 & 6/2009
    2 60 & 1 90 1-3/2012   <--not sure why or when it changed from 30, 60, 90 to 2 60s & 90

Charge Off 2009 or 2011 {no amount or date, account closed in 2009, last payment was 2011}

Given that my overall utilization numbers were already in the 20's I'm guessing that the individual utilizations on the cards were hurting my score.  Now I have 5 accounts at 0%, 2 under 40%, & 2 above 40% {w/one above 80%).  I also completed a balance transfer so that I can close my Discover Personal Loan which had a monthly payment of about $360.  I know that installment loans are treated diferently, but I wanted reduce my debt-to-income ratio.

@I've been reading about the bins & scorecards and have been trying to get a feel for where I sit and the best way to increase my score.  Since 2 of my scores mention utilization, would that mean the reductions I was able to do on the orther cards would be fine? Or is the elephant in the room the card @ 86% utilization?

Since my lates are so old, are they still majorly effecting my credit score aside from putting me in a different scorecard range?  I know that I'm in one of the 4 dirty scorecard since I have collections and a 90-day.

---

The elephant in the room are the collections and especially that 90 day late you have on your reports. A 90 day late is a MAJOR derogatory. You also have a recent collection from 6/2015 which might make it difficult to get refinanced. Lenders like to see 2 years of clean history before a mortgage app date.

Are you aware that you can try and have those items removed from your reports? You don't have to wait for them to age off.

If I were you I would visit the "Rebuilding Your Credit" forum on this website. You need to learn how to write GW (Good Will) letters asking the lenders to remove these baddies from your reports. You also need to learn how to do PFDs (Pay for Deletes) on two of your collections. A PFD is where you negotiate with the collection agency up front and get them to agree to delete the account from your reports if you pay it. As long as you owe them money you have leverage. It does take a small bit of work on your part but you will eventually be successful in having at least most of the baddies removed if not all of them. THIS IS THE QUICKEST AND CHEAPEST WAY TO RAISE YOUR SCORES!

[cj1132]

I agree with Jamie123 that the derogs are holding your scores down significantly.

I have a long stable profile with total utilization around 34%, 5/9 cards reporting balances and two of those balances are around 73 or 74%.  I have no inquiries.

My Fico 8 scores are TU 752, EQ 752 and EX 755.  However, my mortgage scores are TU 750, EQ 705 and EX 735.  That's a big difference between the Fico08 and mortgage scores.  I definitely think you should pull your mortgage scores and see where you are.

My TU report is clean.  My EX report has a 30 day late that is 5.3 years old and my EQ has the 30 day late payment and also a paid $30 medical collection that is three years old.  I have a 30 point difference between EQ and EX and the only difference is that $30 medical collection.  I know that the effect will diminish as more time passes but it's going to effect my mortgage scores for the entire time it's on my reports.  It had been on my EX report, one day it mysteriously disappeared and my EX mortgage score has increased from 712 to 735 -- a 23 point increase.

It would be to your benefit to get some of those negatives removed if at all possible.

I am also planning to refinance and hope to have an approval this week.  I wanted to get my middle mortgage score over 720 and now it is so I can move ahead.  My current mortgage rate is 5.75% on a 30 year loan so I understand your desire to reduce your interest rate..  I will be going to a 15 year loan.  I decided to spend the last couple years getting my profile in better shape and becoming completely familiar with the process.  I probably could have refinanced sooner but, for me, it was the right decision because I wanted to have all my ducks in a row.  I did keep a close eye on the rates and would have jumped sooner if they started to increase dramatically.

Good luck to you.   Do all you can to get your file in the best shape you can and you will reap the rewards with a better interest rate.  As mentioned, spend some time in the rebuilding forum and see what you can do to possibly elimiate some of the derogs.  It will be well worth your while.

[jamie123]

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@cj1132 wrote:

I agree with Jamie123 that the derogs are holding your scores down significantly.

I have a long stable profile with total utilization around 34%, 5/9 cards reporting balances and two of those balances are around 73 or 74%.  I have no inquiries.

My Fico 8 scores are TU 752, EQ 752 and EX 755.  However, my mortgage scores are TU 750, EQ 705 and EX 735.  That's a big difference between the Fico08 and mortgage scores.  I definitely think you should pull your mortgage scores and see where you are.

My TU report is clean.  My EX report has a 30 day late that is 5.3 years old and my EQ has the 30 day late payment and also a paid $30 medical collection that is three years old.  I have a 30 point difference between EQ and EX and the only difference is that $30 medical collection.  I know that the effect will diminish as more time passes but it's going to effect my mortgage scores for the entire time it's on my reports.  It had been on my EX report, one day it mysteriously disappeared and my EX mortgage score has increased from 712 to 735 -- a 23 point increase.

It would be to your benefit to get some of those negatives removed if at all possible.

I am also planning to refinance and hope to have an approval this week.  I wanted to get my middle mortgage score over 720 and now it is so I can move ahead.  My current mortgage rate is 5.75% on a 30 year loan so I understand your desire to reduce your interest rate..  I will be going to a 15 year loan.  I decided to spend the last couple years getting my profile in better shape and becoming completely familiar with the process.  I probably could have refinanced sooner but, for me, it was the right decision because I wanted to have all my ducks in a row.  I did keep a close eye on the rates and would have jumped sooner if they started to increase dramatically.

Good luck to you.   Do all you can to get your file in the best shape you can and you will reap the rewards with a better interest rate.  As mentioned, spend some time in the rebuilding forum and see what you can do to possibly elimiate some of the derogs.  It will be well worth your while.

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cj1132 have you tried disputing the $30 medical collection? The CRAs are usually pretty lenient when it comes to removing medical collections that are under $100.

Same goes for that 30 day late. I would suggest GWing the heck out of whoever the 30 day late is with. C'mon, I'll help you write the sob story!

(The 30 day late that shows on my credit report is preventing me from buying a house for my family. I was finally able to scrape together a down payment by bringing a bag lunch to work and saving money by not taking the express bus to work. I know the regular bus took a half hour longer each way but it was worth doing for my children. I was hoping to be able to put an offer in on a wonderful home that I've had my eye on before Christmas. You know, it would be such a wonderful Christmas present for my children. They would each have their very own bedroom for the first time ever.)

What do you think?