Rebucket 5 years post BK7???

[Revelate]

---

@cem13 wrote:

@ Revelate

I closed my Amazon store card on Friday night.  It reported to Experian this morning.  Guess what?  No change in score.  I will keep an eye on EQ and TU over the next day or so and report back.

Now I am really perplexed.

---

Thanks for the datapoint!

[cem13]

---

@Revelate wrote:

---

@cem13 wrote:

@ Revelate

I closed my Amazon store card on Friday night.  It reported to Experian this morning.  Guess what?  No change in score.  I will keep an eye on EQ and TU over the next day or so and report back.

Now I am really perplexed.

---

Thanks for the datapoint!

---

I received an EQ alert today with the closed account.  No score change.  I suspect TU will be the same when it alerts me tonight.

So now I am thinking a 5 year post BK7 rebucket is in order.  My file will be the same utilization (under 5% total and 25% for one card).  This is the same as DEC15 when my scores were all above 710.  

The only difference is the INQ for the amazon and the 2 month hit to my AAOA.

[Revelate]

---

@cem13 wrote:

---

@Revelate wrote:

---

@cem13 wrote:

@ Revelate

I closed my Amazon store card on Friday night.  It reported to Experian this morning.  Guess what?  No change in score.  I will keep an eye on EQ and TU over the next day or so and report back.

Now I am really perplexed.

---

Thanks for the datapoint!

---

I received an EQ alert today with the closed account.  No score change.  I suspect TU will be the same when it alerts me tonight.

So now I am thinking a 5 year post BK7 rebucket is in order.  My file will be the same utilization (under 5% total and 25% for one card).  This is the same as DEC15 when my scores were all above 710.  

The only difference is the INQ for the amazon and the 2 month hit to my AAOA.

---

Seems like most other things have been ruled out, so yeah could well be the case for BK's.  Appreciate your data on this!

[Thomas_Thumb]

---

@Revelate wrote:

---

@cem13 wrote:

---

@Revelate wrote:

---

@cem13 wrote:

@ Revelate

I closed my Amazon store card on Friday night.  It reported to Experian this morning.  Guess what?  No change in score.  I will keep an eye on EQ and TU over the next day or so and report back.

Now I am really perplexed.

---

Thanks for the datapoint!

---

I received an EQ alert today with the closed account.  No score change.  I suspect TU will be the same when it alerts me tonight.

So now I am thinking a 5 year post BK7 rebucket is in order.  My file will be the same utilization (under 5% total and 25% for one card).  This is the same as DEC15 when my scores were all above 710.  

The only difference is the INQ for the amazon and the 2 month hit to my AAOA.

---

Seems like most other things have been ruled out, so yeah could well be the case for BK's.  Appreciate your data on this!

---

Assignment to a different scorecard sure seems plausible. There are 4 dirty scorecards in Fico 08 that I like to classify as follows:

1) Major new dirt

2) Major old dirt

3) Minor new dirt

4) Minor old dirt.

Perhaps your dirt has aged enough to change scorecards.

[Revelate]

---

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

---

@Revelate wrote:

---

@cem13 wrote:

---

@Revelate wrote:

---

@cem13 wrote:

@ Revelate

I closed my Amazon store card on Friday night.  It reported to Experian this morning.  Guess what?  No change in score.  I will keep an eye on EQ and TU over the next day or so and report back.

Now I am really perplexed.

---

Thanks for the datapoint!

---

I received an EQ alert today with the closed account.  No score change.  I suspect TU will be the same when it alerts me tonight.

So now I am thinking a 5 year post BK7 rebucket is in order.  My file will be the same utilization (under 5% total and 25% for one card).  This is the same as DEC15 when my scores were all above 710.  

The only difference is the INQ for the amazon and the 2 month hit to my AAOA.

---

Seems like most other things have been ruled out, so yeah could well be the case for BK's.  Appreciate your data on this!

---

Assignment to a different scorecard sure seems plausible. There are 4 dirty scorecards in Fico 08 that I like to classify as follows:

1) Major new dirt

2) Major old dirt

3) Minor new dirt

4) Minor old dirt.

Perhaps your dirt has aged enough to change scorecards.

---

Is that explicitly known?  Would make some sense based on what I've seen in my own data with regards to FICO 8, and actually if you strike out the age bit that would match identically the 2 dirty buckets for my FICO 4 data too.

Only caveat in that is I'm fairly certain delinquencies are handled seperate to PR's/Collections which look to be awfully similar in their handling even under FICO 8 (waiting for some better updated bureaus to hopefully delete in addition to EX) and darned near exact in the prior models.

[Thomas_Thumb]

I have a half dozen or more sources that explicitly state Fico 08 (and Fico 09 for that matter) have 4 dirty scorecards - Fico 04 & Fico 98 have only 2. 

The severity of the derog is explicitly mentioned as a factor in all models. The age factor is implied on my part based on recent models appear to taper impact over time. Of course, the dirty scorecards could also be severity and QTY related. I picked age as a 2nd segmentation factor. Can't recall but, one or two articles (from CRAs and/or Fico directly) may allude to a breakdown of dirty categories.I have linked to some of these sources in other posts and saved copies of articles on my home computer.

I don't have time to look for the links now but, may update this post later today if I can find the info. In the meantime, here is a paste from an Equifax article I linked to previously.

[cem13]

Hi TT,

Thanks for the data point.  I will have to wait for all my CCs to report for this month again.  I will make sure that my utilization is lower this month then previous months.  Then my score should rebound if the drop was utilization related but I do not think that is it.  Losing 34 points that are NOT utilization related, seems bizzare to me.

Like I mentioned, I thought the Amazon store card hit me but since I closed the card, no rebound.  My AAOA is over 5 years and my INQs are about 7 on each CRA.

[Revelate]

Yeah TT I knew there was 4 dirty scorecards under FICO 8, I was just questioning if there was anything documented re: age.

It certainly would make sense anecdotally; my recent collection coming off EX/TU vs. tax lien bit could well be explicit on that one... waiting on TU to update since it doesn't suffer from EX's current lag for me where the 10 points on EX could've just been number of revolving tradelines with balances regarding FICO 8 moving across the 50% threshold.  No other score moved which if we take age out of it which might be able to given how little my EQ Beacon 5.0 moved when I got a new Fed tax lien on there once upon a time when I already had a state tax lien on there from I think 4 years at that point, and moving all of 5 points vs. a much larger swing on FICO 8 models (50ish).

Anyway I think you are correct in suggesting it's age I just didn't know if you'd found anything formally suggesting it from FICO or the bureaus.

[NRB525]

---

@cem13 wrote:

Hi TT,

Thanks for the data point.  I will have to wait for all my CCs to report for this month again.  I will make sure that my utilization is lower this month then previous months.  Then my score should rebound if the drop was utilization related but I do not think that is it.  Losing 34 points that are NOT utilization related, seems bizzare to me.

Like I mentioned, I thought the Amazon store card hit me but since I closed the card, no rebound.  My AAOA is over 5 years and my INQs are about 7 on each CRA.

---

I must say, rather a perplexing set of score changes.

For how long had your scores been at the 710 range, prior to the drop to 680? When did your scores first cross above 700?

And just for my own clarification, you always and every day have at least one credit card that had its last statement report some sort of balance? I thought I picked up in the thread that all cards were at zero reported balance at some point recently?

[cem13]

---

@NRB525 wrote:

I must say, rather a perplexing set of score changes.

For how long had your scores been at the 710 range, prior to the drop to 680? When did your scores first cross above 700?

And just for my own clarification, you always and every day have at least one credit card that had its last statement report some sort of balance? I thought I picked up in the thread that all cards were at zero reported balance at some point recently?

---

My scores reached 700 in MAY2013, 23 months after BK7 D/C.  They have slowly increased to 710~715 through DEC2015.  So they have been 700+ for 2.5 years.

I have always had at least 1 cc reporting a balance.  The 2nd card was the amazon card that reported $1500 / $5000 in JAN16 and this report triggered the alert so I assumed it was the cause.  However now that I closed the Amazon card with $0, my scores did not move.  I double checked my installment loans for anything unusual and I could not find anything.

All of my other scores: Mortgage, FICO 04, Auto Enhanced have not changed.  It is only FICO 8 that had the significant drop in score.

So if the score drop was not related to the Amazon card reporting a balance, there must be something else that I cannot find but whatever that was, it did not trigger an alert but was picked up during the Amazon alert.

I pulled my 3B on 05MAR16 and everything looks good.  This is very interesting for sure.