Removed my only AU cc on Transunion 9 pt drop

[AzCreditGuy]

There's a lot of information on AU here and it seems everyone agrees that the AU no longer benefits the AU for scores. I was under the impression as well.

On Sept 13th score of 800

7 personal CC

1 AU CC

$154 balance on my personal Cap1 cc

1 inquiry

On Sept 24th score 791

7 personal CC

$154 balance on my personal Cap1 cc

1 inquiry

I am at AZEO now and have removed the AU penalties that were affecting me before. I assume I am now being penalized for the high AZEO vs a low balance or that the AU CC did matter on my credit report?

[GZG]

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@AzCreditGuy wrote:

 it seems everyone agrees that the AU no longer benefits the AU for scores. 

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I would more so say that (unless the anti-AU fraud thing is triggered)

AU cards certainly can help scores if all of the factors are good, but the meaning behind that 'upgraded' score is extremely diluted when it comes to lenders who review reports

so the 'score' gets a bunch of points, sure, but it's not 'real' points in the sense that lenders will discount heavily or not consider AUs in their entirity when it comes to applications

but no, afaik, there's nothing in FICO scoring that says that AU's dont change your score, they definitely do. Unless there's a completely blank file or you're actively using AU cards with family or a p2 or something, I wouldn't bother with AUs personally.

[Anonymalous]

Did your AAoA drop?

I can make an extremely strong case that AUs still counted, or at least they did in 2021. I had 5 months of personal credit history, when FICO generated a score. That's one CC, and nothing else. No installment loans, nothing. The only reason I became scorable a month early was because an AU card reported. And my FICO 8 scores varied from 767 to 784. Those aren't starting scores, and are due to the AU's age (20+ years).

AUs are intended for married couples, and the closer you match that pattern, the more likely it is to count. I got my AU card from a close relative, we share a last name and have opposite genders, and the card even reported their address on my file. But if you can't meet any those of those criteria, there's a very good chance the AU card will ignored when calculating a score.

But despite my impressive scores, lenders like Chase shot me down, and the offers I got in the mail were all subprime. As @GZG mentioned, many (most?) lenders generate their own internal scores, or otherwise discount AU cards. They could see I was a new file, and that mattered a lot more than any three digit number. Conversely, my second card, which I got just after I became scoreable, had a SL of over $8K. Even though Navy is known for high limits, that still seems very high for someone with 1 personal card and 6 months of credit history, so I think they did factor in the AU.

[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

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@AzCreditGuy wrote:

There's a lot of information on AU here and it seems everyone agrees that the AU no longer benefits the AU for scores. I was under the impression as well.

On Sept 13th score of 800

7 personal CC

1 AU CC

$154 balance on my personal Cap1 cc

1 inquiry

On Sept 24th score 791

7 personal CC

$154 balance on my personal Cap1 cc

1 inquiry

I am at AZEO now and have removed the AU penalties that were affecting me before. I assume I am now being penalized for the high AZEO vs a low balance or that the AU CC did matter on my credit report?

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Question:  Did the AU account update to show ownership as "terminted," but stay on your reports, update to a zero balance and continue to report the account history?

[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

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@GZG wrote:

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@AzCreditGuy wrote:

 it seems everyone agrees that the AU no longer benefits the AU for scores. 

---

I would more so say that (unless the anti-AU fraud thing is triggered)

AU cards certainly can help scores if all of the factors are good, but the meaning behind that 'upgraded' score is extremely diluted when it comes to lenders who review reports

so the 'score' gets a bunch of points, sure, but it's not 'real' points in the sense that lenders will discount heavily or not consider AUs in their entirity when it comes to applications

but no, afaik, there's nothing in FICO scoring that says that AU's dont change your score, they definitely do. Unless there's a completely blank file or you're actively using AU cards with family or a p2 or something, I wouldn't bother with AUs personally.

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I have several AU accounts and they have definitely helped me.   Two from my deceased parents, a few from my partner and one 30+ year old account from my best friend who has now retired from Chase.  When you pull the myFICO reports they show these AU accounts as the oldest accounts I have since my IIB accounts all fell off at 7 years and they are reflected in the AAofA.

Also, IMHO, points are points.   So long as you have sufficient primary accounts (unlike say an 18-year-old who has a 780 with just their parents' AU accounts),  the scores are real.   And most credit card approvals are based on the computer algorithm.   There is nobody excising these accounts from your FICO scores.    That's not possible without you deleting the accounts.

AU accounts helped me greatly as I made my journey from just filing chapter 7, right up to today, 10 years later with the BK gone.

That said, I think AU accounts are like training wheels and really are there to give you a leg up, but I have never seen an application rejected with a notation that said, in effect, "great FICO score but we're not counting your AU accounts."

[AzCreditGuy]

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@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

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@AzCreditGuy wrote:

There's a lot of information on AU here and it seems everyone agrees that the AU no longer benefits the AU for scores. I was under the impression as well.

On Sept 13th score of 800

7 personal CC

1 AU CC

$154 balance on my personal Cap1 cc

1 inquiry

On Sept 24th score 791

7 personal CC

$154 balance on my personal Cap1 cc

1 inquiry

I am at AZEO now and have removed the AU penalties that were affecting me before. I assume I am now being penalized for the high AZEO vs a low balance or that the AU CC did matter on my credit report?

---

Question:  Did the AU account update to show ownership as "terminted," but stay on your reports, update to a zero balance and continue to report the account history?

---

TU has fully removed AU account from my report...I checked on Experian and TU Website itself 

[AzCreditGuy]

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@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

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@GZG wrote:

---

@AzCreditGuy wrote:

 it seems everyone agrees that the AU no longer benefits the AU for scores. 

---

I would more so say that (unless the anti-AU fraud thing is triggered)

AU cards certainly can help scores if all of the factors are good, but the meaning behind that 'upgraded' score is extremely diluted when it comes to lenders who review reports

so the 'score' gets a bunch of points, sure, but it's not 'real' points in the sense that lenders will discount heavily or not consider AUs in their entirity when it comes to applications

but no, afaik, there's nothing in FICO scoring that says that AU's dont change your score, they definitely do. Unless there's a completely blank file or you're actively using AU cards with family or a p2 or something, I wouldn't bother with AUs personally.

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I have several AU accounts and they have definitely helped me.   Two from my deceased parents, a few from my partner and one 30+ year old account from my best friend who has now retired from Chase.  When you pull the myFICO reports they show these AU accounts as the oldest accounts I have since my IIB accounts all fell off at 7 years and they are reflected in the AAofA.

Also, IMHO, points are points.   So long as you have sufficient primary accounts (unlike say an 18-year-old who has a 780 with just their parents' AU accounts),  the scores are real.   And most credit card approvals are based on the computer algorithm.   There is nobody excising these accounts from your FICO scores.    That's not possible without you deleting the accounts.

AU accounts helped me greatly as I made my journey from just filing chapter 7, right up to today, 10 years later with the BK gone.

That said, I think AU accounts are like training wheels and really are there to give you a leg up, but I have never seen an application rejected with a notation that said, in effect, "great FICO score but we're not counting your AU accounts."

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I get what you are saying, back in 2015 When I started to late to rebuild my credit I was on 3 AU cc's, at the time I felt it helped me get my own CC's. As some were abusing the aging of accounts, that was removed. On EX credit site...It will showed my oldest account was 20 years AU, but in the AAoA it showed 4yrs 5mths as my newest cards was 8 years 6 mths...

I felt I no longer needed the AU accounts as  had built up my credit. I am still waiting for EX and EQ to show 1 other AU removed from them and than I shall see what the PT drops will be...

[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

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@AzCreditGuy wrote:

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@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

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@AzCreditGuy wrote:

There's a lot of information on AU here and it seems everyone agrees that the AU no longer benefits the AU for scores. I was under the impression as well.

On Sept 13th score of 800

7 personal CC

1 AU CC

$154 balance on my personal Cap1 cc

1 inquiry

On Sept 24th score 791

7 personal CC

$154 balance on my personal Cap1 cc

1 inquiry

I am at AZEO now and have removed the AU penalties that were affecting me before. I assume I am now being penalized for the high AZEO vs a low balance or that the AU CC did matter on my credit report?

---

Question:  Did the AU account update to show ownership as "terminted," but stay on your reports, update to a zero balance and continue to report the account history?

---

TU has fully removed AU account from my report...I checked on Experian and TU Website itself 

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Can I ask who the lender was?   Did you specifically request that it be deleted from your reports or did you just ask to be removed as an AU?


The reason I ask is that I have never had an AU account, where I asked to be removed, fall of my reports.   They just update ownership to "terminated," update the balance to zero, keep the history and move to the closed accounts section.   I've had accounts with AMEX, Chase, BofA, Cap 1, Barclay's, Discover, BECU ... and none of them fell off my reports when I asked to be removed.   Had I told them I wanted the account deleted entirely, I'm sure they would have, or I could dispute them off, but there is zero reason to want to get a satisfactory AU account removed from your reports.   It will continue aging for 10 years, the balance will be zero (no matter the actual card balance) and the credit history remains.   Also, you can be added back as an AU at any time.   I did this recently as my "terminated" accounts were terminated four years ago and I wanted to get them active again so they update the last four years' worth of history and extend the 10-year fall-off date, and then I will have myself terminated again.   You can be added and removed as often as the primary cardholder is willing to accomodate you.    

I also don't believe the AU fraud detection is a real thing.   There are companies that engage in business (of which we shall not speak its name), some of them quite large, and they would not stay in business were this true.   One of these businesses uses John Ulzheimer, a former FICO executive, as their spokesperson.  He would not associate his name with a fake business.

https://johnulzheimer.com/

Also, how on earth would FICO know the address of the primary cardholder and whether they share your last name?    That data doesn't appear anywhere in your reports.  I think we are giving them too much credit.

I know at one time the credit bureaus stopped counting AUs at all, and as I understand it there was such a ruckus that they backed off.   I don't think you can count some AUs and disregard others.   Call me skeptical of that claim.   I believe it's urban lore.

[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

Info on John Ulzheimer.   I've known about him since I started rebuilding 10 years ago.  He's been hired as an expert in 680 cases.

"

A credit expert witness and credit damage expert, by virtue of their professional experience, has a unique and specialized understanding of and about the consumer credit environment and how it works. John’s experience in the credit reporting and credit scoring industries make him an invaluable part of any legal team involved with consumer credit related litigation including credit damage assessment, credit report damages, FDCPA, FCRA, FACTA, FICO scoring, Metro 2 and reasonable procedures.

John has been a part of the consumer credit environment since 1991 including 6 years at Equifax Credit Information Services, 7 years with FICO, inventors of the FICO credit scoring system and over 17 years of concurrent work with many other credit related entities. John has a fluent understanding of credit bureaus, credit reports, credit reporting practices, FICO scores, Metro 2, dispute codes, ACDVs and AUDs.  John has been retained as an expert in over 680 cases and has served as an expert witness for consumers, furnishers, credit bureaus and debt collectors."

[Anonymalous]

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@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

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Also, how on earth would FICO know the address of the primary cardholder and whether they share your last name?    That data doesn't appear anywhere in your reports.  I think we are giving them too much credit.

I know at one time the credit bureaus stopped counting AUs at all, and as I understand it there was such a ruckus that they backed off.   I don't think you can count some AUs and disregard others.   Call me skeptical of that claim.   I believe it's urban lore.

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I really doubt fraud detection is restricted to what's in your report. They're going to use all the tools they have available. The question is what data they have access to, and whether they can match it across the different reports in their database.

And being able to match AU accounts seems very likely, because my reports all show a partial account number for each card, which is masked in different ways at the different bureaus. For instance, Equifax shows the last 4 digits, while Transunion shows all but the last 4 digits. Together, that's the complete card number. It seems unlikely that lenders mask the digits in each account in a different way, when they report it to the different bureaus. So it seems fairly likely that lenders report the full account number to each of the 3 bureaus, who then mask in it in different ways when generating a report. That would make it trivial to identify the primary owner of an account and all authorized users.