Scorecard change results

[BrutalBodyShots]

@SRT4kid93 

So you're saying that a CMS that provides a VS3 (specifically, Chase Credit Journey) can provide reasons for score changes... do you know that to be a fact? I guess what I'm asking is how do you know that the CMS is providing you with a reason for the score change as opposed to just providing you with a report data change that is correlating with the score change? The same way a FICO score source/CMS can "get it right" at times in terms of the alert reason correlating with the score change provided, how do we know Credit Journey isn't doing the same thing? If Credit Journey is able to tell you why your score changed, my question is how is that possible when we're talking a proprietary algorithm? And, why wouldn't other CMS that provide VS3 (like CK) not have the same ability to do the same thing?

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@FicoMike0 wrote:

Thanks @Thomas_Thumb  that's interesting.

I don't think the vs3 chart entirely makes sense. Under the " No previous bankruptcy " branch, they list 4 bankruptcy cards. I guess they really have another "Full File" sub under the "Previous Bankruptcy" branch.

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Agreed. The wording of those scorecards is confusing. vS3 has 13 scorecards. The labels on the right side under no previous bankruptcy are misleading. They are profiling relative propensity for a potential bankruptcy or delinquent (bad) account.

Reading the paper in the VS4 link discusses their approach to scorecards.

[FicoMike0]

I guess fico8 has a 13th scorecard, it's called "unscorable", lol.

I was there about 3 years ago.

[SRT4kid93]

@BrutalBodyShots 

no I have no way of knowing if the reasons  given are the reasons for the score change. Just saying it's able to give multiple reasons, and it also gives reasons I've never seen before on other monitoring sites. 

for example, credit journey said my score changed because my accounts aged over 2 years. I have never seen anything like that on fico. (Sure I have seen my score go up, and I put 2 and 2 together, but fico has never been that detailed)

So the reasons appear more detailed. the reason I was given appears to be them saying "you changed scorecards" without actually saying it

[FicoMike0]

That link to vs4 used guide is quite a read. I notice in the part about ethnic group bias, they say they infer ethnicity by zip code. That's interesting in how to evaluate data you're not allowed to use. We often question use of data that's not available from all lenders. They address that issue, claiming its not a big deal.

I wish we had access to a big group of files. I wonder how well a score based solely on zip code would work. 

[BrutalBodyShots]

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no I have no way of knowing if the reasons  given are the reasons for the score change.

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@SRT4kid93  - Understood. That's what I figured, but I wasn't sure if you knew something I didn't on that front. So just like any other CMS, Credit Journey is just providing alerts and score changes and it just seems that their alert reasons tend to address the score changes, making it seem like they are the actual reasons for the score changes. 

When you say Credit Journey "said your score changed" because your accounts aged over two years, is that simply your interpretation then? It's not actually saying that's the reason why if you're not certain that their CMS can tell you why your score changed.

I think I'm just a bit thrown off by your word choice... because you're saying you don't know if the CMS can tell you why your score changed, but then say that it told you why your score changed. 

@FicoMike0, that whole zip code debate has always baffled me. Maybe I'm just not "traveled" enough, but almost every zip code I've ever been a part of or looked into had both "bad" areas with low income/subpar housing and also "good" areas where upper middle class or even extremely well off people lived. I guess my point is I don't know how zip code alone can really do much. Maybe they're referring to the "+4" (9-digit) zip codes where you can get right down to street addresses?

[FicoMike0]

I don't know, but if they can infer race, I'll bet they can get income and other things.

[SRT4kid93]

@BrutalBodyShots 

let me try to explain 

they are giving me A reason why my score changed. But I can't say with 100% certainty that it's THE reason. 

for example- it says my accounts aged over 2 years and that's why my score dropped. We know accounts aging up wouldn't cause a score drop, so the only logical conclusion is that the accounts aging up caused a scorecard change (which would be the actual reason my score changed) 

but there could potentially be another reason they  aren't saying. I don't believe thats the case because as mentioned, they tend to include every change in your profile. And I have ruled out every other potential change. 45 points is not a small number, there's only a small number of things that would cause a change of that magnitude. 

even with all this being said, I just can't say with 100% certainty there's not something else I'm not seeing. I would say I'm 99% sure it's the accounts aging that caused the scorecard change change. But there's always that small chance it's something else. 

all I know is I ruled out every possible variable, no late payments were introduced, and my utilization did not change. And they said my accounts aging cause the score change. That's enough for me to be 99% certain. 

[BrutalBodyShots]

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@SRT4kid93 wrote:

they are giving me A reason why my score changed.

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Are they though? How are you certain that is what they are doing as opposed to any other CMS that gives you an alert reason that may (or may not) be related to the score change provided?

To be clear on where I'm coming from here, I'm not trying to troubleshoot why your score changed. I'm not looking at variables or anything of the sort. I'm simply focusing on whether it's a fact or not (if you know for certain either way) that Credit Journey actually provides reasons for a score change. My gut says no, as I'd imagine it's just like any other CMS... but since it's realted to VS3 and I have next to no experience with VS3 I could certainly have this one wrong. 

[SRT4kid93]

@BrutalBodyShots 

Can't say for sure. I can only give my educated guess based on the information I have. Which is 

- the only change I can see is that the calendar flipped and accounts aged

- they are telling me score drop is because of account age 

- it happened the exact same time as my fico scorecard change. The same day. 

so I'm just using what information I have