Spree Penalty

[Anonymous]

You know what? this reminds me of some thing that Tom Quinn said in the AMA, that number as opposed to percentage can matter and IIRC, seemed to imply it might apply to younger or thinner profiles more so. So there’s probably something to that.

[Remedios]

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@Revelate wrote:

Which scorecard reassignment are you referring to @Remedios ?

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Baby one to mature one on 8

It happened one rainy night when oldest reached 3 years. 

Fico went all John Wick on me..it was carnage, Rev. My Ficos were flying to the tune on -35 on EQ and around -20 on the other two.

Then, if that wasn't bad enough, when youngest revolver reached a year, I got +3  on each CRA (still talking about 8 only).

[Anonymous]

😂😂😂 but she should still be in the No new Accounts Scorecard on EX2 and it’s not showing a Reason code. But it seems like it’s taking the points.

[Curious_George2]

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@Anonymous wrote:
I would’ve expected 5, 4 and 2 to have it at 31% with a balance. Hmmm. You weren’t lying when you said you had a weird file. Lol.

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Do we have a solid understanding of what gets included in the denominator for these? Obviously open loans and cards do. What about closed loans and closed cards?

I went from 7 accounts with balances to 8 overnight and EX2 took away 6 points. It had just given me those points two days ago when I went from 8 to 7, so kudos for consistency. On EX, I have 14 open accounts, 12 closed. One of the closed accounts is a card, all the others are loans.

So if only open accounts count, 7/14 (50%) is OK. 8/14 (57%) is not.

If open and closed everything counts, 7/26 (27%) is OK. 8/26 (31%) is not.

Also, FWIW, EX2 didn't care that my scorable inquiries went from 4 to 2, which also happened overnight... maybe. Leap day might have screwed up the math. The two inquiries were on on 2/14/2020. EX8 decided they were unscorable as of today. I assume EX2 counts days the same way as EX8, but perhaps not.

[Anonymous]

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@Curious_George2 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
I would’ve expected 5, 4 and 2 to have it at 31% with a balance. Hmmm. You weren’t lying when you said you had a weird file. Lol.

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Do we have a solid understanding of what gets included in the denominator for these? Obviously open loans and cards do. What about closed loans and closed cards?

I went from 7 accounts with balances to 8 overnight and EX2 took away 6 points. It had just given me those points two days ago when I went from 8 to 7, so kudos for consistency. On EX, I have 14 open accounts, 12 closed. One of the closed accounts is a card, all the others are loans.

So if only open accounts count, 7/14 (50%) is OK. 8/14 (57%) is not.

If open and closed everything counts, 7/26 (27%) is OK. 8/26 (31%) is not.

Also, FWIW, EX2 didn't care that my scorable inquiries went from 4 to 2, which also happened overnight... maybe. Leap day might have screwed up the math. The two inquiries were on on 2/14/2020. EX8 decided they were unscorable as of today. I assume EX2 counts days the same way as EX8, but perhaps not.

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Good question we're not absolutely certain on that. We have one data point the EX2 may include closed accounts in the metric. But we are far from certain. Personally I've been doing calculations for open revolvers, calculations for open accounts, and calculations for open and closed accounts trying to find a pattern. We'll figure it out sooner or later. 

as to your second question, version 2 and version 8 are different on the inquiries. They are a day off on leap year for EX2 Rev discovered that. 

[Curious_George2]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Curious_George2 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
I would’ve expected 5, 4 and 2 to have it at 31% with a balance. Hmmm. You weren’t lying when you said you had a weird file. Lol.

---

Do we have a solid understanding of what gets included in the denominator for these? Obviously open loans and cards do. What about closed loans and closed cards?

I went from 7 accounts with balances to 8 overnight and EX2 took away 6 points. It had just given me those points two days ago when I went from 8 to 7, so kudos for consistency. On EX, I have 14 open accounts, 12 closed. One of the closed accounts is a card, all the others are loans.

So if only open accounts count, 7/14 (50%) is OK. 8/14 (57%) is not.

If open and closed everything counts, 7/26 (27%) is OK. 8/26 (31%) is not.

Also, FWIW, EX2 didn't care that my scorable inquiries went from 4 to 2, which also happened overnight... maybe. Leap day might have screwed up the math. The two inquiries were on on 2/14/2020. EX8 decided they were unscorable as of today. I assume EX2 counts days the same way as EX8, but perhaps not.

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Good question we're not absolutely certain on that. We have one data point the EX2 may include closed accounts in the metric. But we are far from certain. Personally I've been doing calculations for open revolvers, calculations for open accounts, and calculations for open and closed accounts trying to find a pattern. We'll figure it out sooner or later. 

as to your second question, version 2 and version 8 are different on the inquiries. They are a day off on leap year for EX2 Rev discovered that. 

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Remi and I form a lil pattern today. If closed accounts count, then we both got the penalty on an EX2-based score (Classic for her. BC for me.) when we went over 30%. We both got it at 31% -- 4/13 for her. 8/26 for me. And neither of us got it one account below that -- 23% for her, 27% for me. Sure seems like closed accounts count and there's a threshold at 30%.

[Revelate]

Well this is weird wonky week FICO style.

Guess what I have on TU with apparently every TU04 model and a 60D late?  New accounts penalty... and you won't believe the #1 reason code.  Hold on to your inquiries and don't get excessively large numbers of tradelines or your mortgage score will not be happy.  Good thing it is a trimerge because this is about the same level I was at with a tax lien on that score haha.

Also I would note all the TU 8/9 scores have the revolving tradeline age reason code which also indicates new account and I never saw that in the bottom 4 scorecards before.

Pictures including the tradeline showing the 60D.  Sadly I am somehow north of 800 on FICO 9 so no reason codes on that explicit model but this upends my understanding of a 60D late.

Only thing I can conjecture is a rebucketing into the bottom of the top 8 scorecards at the 2 year mark.  Pretty certain I have serious derogatory marks in some of my saved reports from before but won't be able to get back to that machine till March to confirm.

[Revelate]

Oh obligatory data point: a total of 35 tradelines on TU.

19 open

16 closed

[Curious_George2]

This whole issue of the number of reason codes shown gets weirder and weirder the closer I look. 

Just focusing on EX8 on myFICO, here's what I see:

• From a 3B report, only 1 reason. (I'm totally ignoring the fluff positive reasons.)
• I got an Alert from Experian today. It doesn't have a score change associated with it, but somehow it brought me all four reasons... but only in the mobile app! The desktop site for this score/date shows... ZERO reasons! Interestingly, at the bottom of the screen on mobile, it says "Source: Credit Alerts." I don't see that on Desktop. My claim of a mobile/desktop difference might sound cuckoo, so pics are below. 

EX8 today on MF Mobile. 4 reasons shown.

EX8 today on MF Desktop. Zero reasons shown.

[Anonymous]

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@Revelate wrote:

Well this is weird wonky week FICO style.

Guess what I have on TU with apparently every TU04 model and a 60D late?  New accounts penalty... and you won't believe the #1 reason code.  Hold on to your inquiries and don't get excessively large numbers of tradelines or your mortgage score will not be happy.  Good thing it is a trimerge because this is about the same level I was at with a tax lien on that score haha.

Also I would note all the TU 8/9 scores have the revolving tradeline age reason code which also indicates new account and I never saw that in the bottom 4 scorecards before.

Pictures including the tradeline showing the 60D.  Sadly I am somehow north of 800 on FICO 9 so no reason codes on that explicit model but this upends my understanding of a 60D late.

Only thing I can conjecture is a rebucketing into the bottom of the top 8 scorecards at the 2 year mark.  Pretty certain I have serious derogatory marks in some of my saved reports from before but won't be able to get back to that machine till March to confirm.

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@Revelate yes, crossing 2 years reassigns you to a clean card on the mortgage Scores. actually wasn't it you that previously discovered that a 60 day late over 2 years old gave a new account reason code on a mortgage Score? That's how we came to the conclusion that at 2 years serious derogatories are reassigned to a clean card on all of the mortgage scores, but on 8, and we assumed 9, they just went to mature dirty cards. I think you found it on one version and then I think I confirmed it on the other versions with the other posters. I think I've got it chronicled in the Primer, post 2. 

now if you find a new account reason code on version 9, you let me know. yeah you actually discovered that a while back and  that's how we came to that conclusion, I think. 

@Revelate did you miss this post? This is how I reconcile the 60 day. A 60 day late or worse delinquency you go to a clean card at two years. Like I said we learned that from your research you were the first one to find the new account reason code, IIRC, after two years on a mortgage Score.