cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Ultilization and points

tag
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Ultilization and points


@Anonymouswrote:
Yes, this is only for 1 card which is my Cap1. Chase just reported, AMEX should report on the second statement.

New accounts reporting can drop score particularly for thin files. Reason codes: "Time since most recent account opening is too short" and "Too many inquiries in the last 12 months" are likely affecting your score. If the 3rd CC has yet to report, you may see a score change associated with it reporting - "Too many accounts recently opened".

 

Don't be concerned if your score bounces around for a few months. It should settle down at a higher average value after 3 to 6 months if you maintain low aggregate utilization.

 

Added note: I don't advocate AZEO as it is an unnecessary burden that does not provide any value add to building a solid credit history. However, I do advise keeping aggregate utilization under 9% and individual card utilizations under 29% as a general rule. That being said, you could even allow aggregate UT excursions up to 29% and individual card UTs up to 49% without any risk of adverse action. Key point is paying on time and preferably paying off statement balances in full every month. Using cards and developing a PIF pattern should be helpful in receiving CLIs after 6 months.

 

Once you have an established revolving credit history past age 6 months; test 1, 2 and 3 cards reporting to see how Fico scorinng models treat your file.

 

 

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 11 of 22
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: Ultilization and points

OP I think your scores are moving because of all the changes in accounts.
You had 1 or 2 auto loans for years with no credit cards until recently.
The auto loans are now paid off / zero.
There are two new credit cards in the last couple months, the third has not yet reported.
There is no meaningful advice at the moment about utilization. As noted, in six months when these three cards have stabilized history, then you can start watching / managing with utilization. Until then, the new account aging is the bigger factor.

When all three bureaus are closer to each other, that will indicate more stability. 50 point difference between bureau on the same model is an indication of lots of noise.
High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 12 of 22
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: Ultilization and points


@Anonymouswrote:

Hey SJ.  Can you describe further the changes you saw in total utilization and the connected score changes?

 

Assuming that the score changes really owed to CC balances and not to anything else, it would make me wonder whether some FICO models look at the raw dollar value of debt and not only the utilization percent.  If so, your profile would exhibit changes going to from 0.1% to 8.3% (say) since the dollar value of your debt would be going from $500 to 43k -- whereas a guy with a 10k total limit would always have a fairly small dollar value (< $899).

 

Again, I am assuming you'd ruled out individual util as a factor, and wonky things like a credit card with a 50k limit or a charge card or an AU card (and other entirely unrelated factors like accounts falling off and affecting age, number of cards reporting a balance, etc.).


When I have all accounts at 28% or less, and number of accounts reporting balances remains constant, my FICO 8's with move within a range of around 30 points as my overall revolving utilization moves from 1/2% to 8.9%.

 

I can rule out any 50k limit cards since I don't have one, and I can rule out charge cards since the only one I had didn't report, and I've never had an AU card.

 

I can't rule out individual utilization changes in the 0 to 28% range. Maybe those are part of the equation, maybe they're not.


Total revolving limits 569520 (505320 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 689 TU 684 EX 682




Message 13 of 22
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Ultilization and points

SJ - I suspect the primary factors influencing your scores are related to new and recently opened accounts. There are strong indications that thresholds may exist at 3 month, 6 month and 12 months for recently opened accounts. New account openings and recently opened account aging are likely causing score fluctuations.

 

You may also be seeing some score shifts due to inquiry aging. I know that 3 months is an inquiry aging milestone for VantageScore. Based on the below score shifts I experienced, it appears 3 months might be a threshold for inquiries with Fico 8 as well.

 INQ summary 2017r.jpg

INQ TU score shift 2017-2018.jpgINQ EQ score shift 2017 - 2018.jpg

 

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 14 of 22
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: Ultilization and points


@Thomas_Thumbwrote:

SJ - I suspect the primary factors influencing your scores are related to new and recently opened accounts. There are strong indications that thresholds may exist at 3 month, 6 month and 12 months for recently opened accounts. New account openings and recently opened account aging are likely causing score fluctuations.

 

You may also be seeing some score shifts due to inquiry aging. I know that 3 months is an inquiry aging milestone for VantageScore. Based on the below score shifts I experienced, it appears 3 months might be a threshold for inquiries with Fico 8 as well.

 INQ summary 2017r.jpg

INQ TU score shift 2017-2018.jpgINQ EQ score shift 2017 - 2018.jpg

You're entitled to have that opinion, but I monitor my FICO 8 scores on a daily basis, and it is clear that there is a major swing in my scores as I move between 1/2 % and 8.9% overall revolving utilization.

Total revolving limits 569520 (505320 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 689 TU 684 EX 682




Message 15 of 22
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Ultilization and points


@SouthJamaicawrote:

@Thomas_Thumbwrote:

SJ - I suspect the primary factors influencing your scores are related to new and recently opened accounts. There are strong indications that thresholds may exist at 3 month, 6 month and 12 months for recently opened accounts. New account openings and recently opened account aging are likely causing score fluctuations.

 

 

You're entitled to have that opinion, but I monitor my FICO 8 scores on a daily basis, and it is clear that there is a major swing in my scores as I move between 1/2 % and 8.9% overall revolving utilization.

 

In your testing with a fixed number of cards reporting balances are the same cards reporting for each data point? That would help isolate variables. Also, as mentioned above, individual card utilizations are worth considering. Perhaps you could offer up a table something like the below. This would help in looking for patterns. It would be interesting to see groups of three data points such as:

a. Group A - Individual card max UT below 9% with three different AG UT data points

b. Group B - Individual card max UT in the 9% to under 19% range with three different AG UT data points

c. Group C - Individual card max UT in the 19% to under 29% range with three different AG UT data points

 

If one of the three AG UT data points was essentially the same (say around 3%) for groups A, B and C that may shed some light on influence of individual card UT.

 

Month/day**********************************************************************
Credit score       
AG UT%       
# cards reporting        
Total # cards       
Card #1 name       
Card #1 UT%       
Card # 2 name       
Card #2 UT%       
Card #3 name       
Card #3 UT %       
Card #4       
Card #4 UT%       
Card # 5       
Card #5 UT%       
Card # 6       
Card #6 UT%       
Card #7       
Card #7 UT%       
Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 16 of 22
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Ultilization and points

I was thinking of keeping my three individual cards around 2.9% ult instead of AZEO. What are your opinions?
Message 17 of 22
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: Ultilization and points


@Anonymouswrote:
I was thinking of keeping my three individual cards around 2.9% ult instead of AZEO. What are your opinions?

You will do better if you have 2 of the 3 cards reporting a zero balance.


Total revolving limits 569520 (505320 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 689 TU 684 EX 682




Message 18 of 22
SouthJamaica
Mega Contributor

Re: Ultilization and points


@Thomas_Thumbwrote:

@SouthJamaicawrote:

@Thomas_Thumbwrote:

SJ - I suspect the primary factors influencing your scores are related to new and recently opened accounts. There are strong indications that thresholds may exist at 3 month, 6 month and 12 months for recently opened accounts. New account openings and recently opened account aging are likely causing score fluctuations.

 

 

You're entitled to have that opinion, but I monitor my FICO 8 scores on a daily basis, and it is clear that there is a major swing in my scores as I move between 1/2 % and 8.9% overall revolving utilization.

 

In your testing with a fixed number of cards reporting balances are the same cards reporting for each data point? That would help isolate variables. Also, as mentioned above, individual card utilizations are worth considering. Perhaps you could offer up a table something like the below. This would help in looking for patterns. It would be interesting to see groups of three data points such as:

a. Group A - Individual card max UT below 9% with three different AG UT data points

b. Group B - Individual card max UT in the 9% to under 19% range with three different AG UT data points

c. Group C - Individual card max UT in the 19% to under 29% range with three different AG UT data points

 

If one of the three AG UT data points was essentially the same (say around 3%) for groups A, B and C that may shed some light on influence of individual card UT.

 

Month/day**********************************************************************
Credit score       
AG UT%       
# cards reporting        
Total # cards       
Card #1 name       
Card #1 UT%       
Card # 2 name       
Card #2 UT%       
Card #3 name       
Card #3 UT %       
Card #4       
Card #4 UT%       
Card # 5       
Card #5 UT%       
Card # 6       
Card #6 UT%       
Card #7       
Card #7 UT%       

For someone who abhors micromanagement you're sure giving me an awful lot of homework there Smiley Happy


Total revolving limits 569520 (505320 reporting) FICO 8: EQ 689 TU 684 EX 682




Message 19 of 22
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Ultilization and points

No need to micromanage and I wouldn't try to impose that on you Smiley Happy.

 

Thought you might already have this if you keep daily records. It's more of an exercise of organizing data into blocks in hopes of isolating impact of factors. However, it is a lot of work and very few people keep detailed daily records. If your scores are sometimes higher at lowest aggregate UT levels and sometimes higher at increased UT levels then something else is influencing the shift in score.

 

For example, could higher utilization levels on recently opened cards/accounts be treated more harshly than similar utilization levels on established accounts? It's hard to say what else might be at play even when data is segregating into groups or controlled trials are conducted.

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 20 of 22
Advertiser Disclosure: The offers that appear on this site are from third party advertisers from whom FICO receives compensation.