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What lenders consider.

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Anonymous
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Re: What lenders consider.

Thanks much 3rd325 nice tips..
Message 11 of 20
Anonymous
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Re: What lenders consider.

Definitely a good post, and something I'll consider when I start house hunting.  Hopefully in 2009 at some point.
Message 12 of 20
Anonymous
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Re: What lenders consider.

3rd325  Thanks for the info.
 
Scout
Message 13 of 20
RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: What lenders consider.

An a bsolutely great thread!  Many have complained that FICO does not consider income in its scoring.  This thread hammers  home the point that FICO is not a blind tool used by creditors to grant credit, and even though not included in FICO, debt to income, employment, residency, etc. are all factors in many actual credit approval processes.  Part of undersanding FICO scoring is to also understand what it is not.  I really appreciate the extensive insight from 3rd325.. 
Message 14 of 20
RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: What lenders consider.

FICO, once again, is not the only, or sometimes even the primary, factor used in credit decisions by lendors.

Lendors often use their own algorithms to guide in their credit decisions that are not just simple FICO based.  One major CCC obtained a patent on their scoring algorithm a few years ago, and it sheds public light into their algorithm process. These are widely published, not speculation. 

Many lendors rely upon a “segmentation” algorithm that is not pegged to FICO. Any basic text in credit scoring sets forth this as being a decades-old approach.  Sure, FICO may also be  a part of the decision, but they have also used a conventional “segmentation tree” approach within their own scorecards.  First segmentation cut is usually separating those with “dirty” as opposed to “clean” credit histories.  Applicants with no delinquencies or very old minor delinquencies are generally refereed to as having a clean credit history. Those with moderate (60 day) or severe (90+) delinquencies, or recent delinquencies, are generally referred to as having a dirty credit file. The severity index used to determine whether a credit history is clean or dirty is taken as a combination of severity and recentness of the delinquency.

 

Next cut on the segmentation tree is usually whether the credit history is thin or thick.  The term “thin” and “thick” credit files are industry-recognized terms, although still at the discretion of the CCC in their algorithm.  

A thin credit file usually encompasses credit histories of people that have not had a bank card or too short of a credit history. An applicant with a thin file generally refers to an applicant with fewer than three trades.  Thick credit files usually means the history has data on three or more trades.

So, from the first branch of “clean” and “dirty” segmentation of applicants comes a second division into “thin” and “thick.”

Both primary factors.  Then within each of the now two branches on each of the two trees comes the next factor, which is usually %util of revolving TLs.  Another grouping, or segmentation, of applicants.  From those branches then spring twigs that further segment into factors such as overall length of credit history.

 

Notice the clear parallel between the “segmentation tree” approach to credit scoring and the FICO approach.  The first cut, “dirty” vs “clean,” parallels payment history in FICO, which is given the highest FICO weighting of 35%.  The next cut, “thin” or “thick,” is a combination of both credit mix and credit utilization.  The next cut, %util, looks almost exclusively at % util of revolving accounts, and is the prime factor used in that tree branch for then separating high and low risk applicants.  At the end of each tree branch, a risk is then assigned (high, medium, low) that is highly weighted according to the major cut of %util. From the end of each branch comes an assessment of risk level. and thus approval criteria.

 

I do not mean to infer that lendors, such CCCs rely upon their own screening at the exclusion of FICO, but be aware that they may use their own in-house scoring.  A CCC making a decision on a $200 CL card may want to cuts approval costs, and thus rely primarily upon a simple FICO score that they can readily purchase. But many use more than that.  Many use their own algorithms to generate their mailings of offers for “pre-approval” of their credit offers.  So, thinking that one is “pre-approved,” a consumer then applies. Then the CCC, in their final decision, may do an authorized “hard pull,” and then use your FICO as part of their final credit decision.  Some even ask for residency or income info, which is clearly far beyond their evaluation using only FICO score.

 

Major creditors other than CCCs often have their own preliminary, or even final, scoring algorithms, and approval criteria, that are NOT based solely upon the Holy FICO!  Hmm, maybe they consider income, or residency status?  Family income?  Total debt to income?

 

To think that obtaining a certain FICO score is the industry recognized standard that ensures approval or offer of a certain loan rate is simply not true.

Message 15 of 20
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: What lenders consider.

3rd325, did you spend much time in Division.
Message 16 of 20
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: What lenders consider.

How much do collections count agaisnt me and does it really make a difference if I pay them? In trying to raise my scores I've paid a couple =ing  one does't even report it paid, the other reported it paid and mysteriously found on old one and added it to my file, seems I'm getting punished for trying to clean things up.
Message 17 of 20
RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: What lenders consider.

Victoria, you have hit once again upon one of the many achilles heels of the FICO scoring system.  You are not necessarily rewarded by FICO for doing the right thing financially by paying off collection debt.  FICO does not care, once a collection is on your report, whether it is paid or not.  It remains a major payment history derog, at the same score hit, for 7 years.  In fact, to compound the insult in "doing the right thing," often the payment of an old collection  brings it back onto your report for a new 7 year period depending upon how it was coded when payed, and can increase its lingering negativity.
It is kinda morally sad that FICO rewards you more for ignoring collection debt as it approaches 5-7 years from collection than it does for praising you for making due.
 
 
Message 18 of 20
RobertEG
Legendary Contributor

Re: What lenders consider.

I was having a rough time this month paying all the bills.  

So I wandered down to the corner of 15th an U-street, pried open the rusty door, and met Tony the Loan Officer.

Terms:  Robert, we will give you a loan for $5000.  Monthly (not annual) interest rate of 20%.

I protested!  That is against the state usury laws!

“Ah” , but he says, “I am a registered credit card company, it’s called the Soprano Master, and this is South Dakota!, and so I have a state exemption from fairness!!!”

To which I played my last trump card…

“But, but, I have a FICO score of 720!”  I proudly boasted….

To which is replied, when he was done laughing…

“We rely upon our own dis-Advantage score, and that shows you are dead meat!”

So, what do lendors consider?

Hmmmmm….. does it all depend?



Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-20-2008 10:44 PM
Message 19 of 20
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: What lenders consider.

This is one good thread  Smiley Very Happy!!  I makes me feel better.  I fall into the stable, but not high Fico.  Thanks for giving me hope
 
Smiley TongueSmiley Very HappySmiley Wink
 
Michelle
Message 20 of 20
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