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What's Fair about Isaac?

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Anonymous
Not applicable

What's Fair about Isaac?

Scenario - out of town.   Can't find a BP Amoco gas station - use Exxon/Mobil card.  Spend $13.50.  Pays $13.50 (electronically) before receiving bill.  Meanwhile FICO score drops from 804 to 802??  Reason?  Account not used for 6 months!  Charge appears almost immediately.  Payment takes 1-2 months even if paid in month of charge. 

 

Also - if you have too many accounts opened FICO drops - if you close same accounts - FICO drops.  Damned if you do and if you don't.  Like I said - what's Fair about Isaac.  And who in the heck IS Isaac? (smile).  But seriously, I have a number of accounts I wish to cancel - how bad would this affect my FICO and how long would it take to rebound?

Message 1 of 14
13 REPLIES 13
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: What's Fair about Isaac?

Closing an account doesnt lower you FICO. A closed account still reports on your credit as a positive TL if it was in good standing. What lowers your FICO is your utilization. When you close it its credit limit no longer counts toward your overall limit so if you close a $10000 card and you had $30000 in available credit with a $10000 balance you were using 1/3 of your limit now by closing $10000 you are using 50% of your limit therefore increasing your utilization and lowering your FICO. Hope this helps.
Message 2 of 14
MarineVietVet
Moderator Emeritus

Re: What's Fair about Isaac?


@Anonymous wrote:

Scenario - out of town.   Can't find a BP Amoco gas station - use Exxon/Mobil card.  Spend $13.50.  Pays $13.50 (electronically) before receiving bill.  Meanwhile FICO score drops from 804 to 802??  Reason?  Account not used for 6 months!  Charge appears almost immediately.  Payment takes 1-2 months even if paid in month of charge. 

 

Also - if you have too many accounts opened FICO drops - if you close same accounts - FICO drops.  Damned if you do and if you don't.  Like I said - what's Fair about Isaac.  And who in the heck IS Isaac? (smile).  But seriously, I have a number of accounts I wish to cancel - how bad would this affect my FICO and how long would it take to rebound?


Just in case anyone is interested FICO was founded in 1956 as Fair Isaac by engineer Bill Fair and mathematician Earl Isaac.

Message 3 of 14
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: What's Fair about Isaac?

[Just in case anyone is interested FICO was founded in 1956 as Fair Isaac by engineer Bill Fair and mathematician Earl Isaac.]

 

I think Mr. Fair should have stuck to engineering and Mr. Isaac should have stuck to math.  FICO runs our lives now.  I'd like to get an ARCO card so I wouldn't have keep getting cash & go inside to pay & go back to get my refund & receipt.  But if I do, my score will go down.  Whenever I ask the FICO people a question, like if I apply for a gas card will it lower my score, the answer is always unsympathetic.  "Yes it WILL," as if I'm about to commit a crime & asked if I might end up in jail.  And they never tell by how much.   Being a FICO person must give you a real sense of power.

Message 4 of 14
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: What's Fair about Isaac?

With a new account you should get a drop. This is in there because when people get desperate and they go open a bunch of new accounts it lowers their score as they are acting risky. People who open a lot of credit at once usually NEED it and are high risk to lenders. One single account will only be marginal and you will gain all of the points back with on time payment history and then some at 1 year old. It makes sense to do that to me. That is what FICO is all about is risk modeling.
Message 5 of 14
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: What's Fair about Isaac?

[With a new account you should get a drop. This is in there because when people get desperate and they go open a bunch of new accounts it lowers their score as they are acting risky. People who open a lot of credit at once usually NEED it and are high risk to lenders. One single account will only be marginal and you will gain all of the points back with on time payment history and then some at 1 year old. It makes sense to do that to me. That is what FICO is all about is risk modeling]

 

Why should hundreds of thousands of resposible people have to suffer because of a few deadbeats?  They should consider your score before they lower yours.  If you have 700 or over, you shouldn't be punished because they're using simplified "risk modeling".

Message 6 of 14
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: What's Fair about Isaac?

If you can explain a better formula for how to decide who gets dinged for opening a new account and who doesnt that makes sense I will gladly support you in presenting it to them. I dont think you can say just because they have a high credit score means they wont go down. For example I had a friend whos dad had EXCELLENT credit all the years we grew up. Post High-School he bought a new house after paying off the first one and gave the first house to my friend. They always drove new cars every two or three years they would trade them in for another new one. He could get credit anywhere he wanted. Fast forward a couple of years he had two cars repossesed, his home foreclosed on, and credit cards charged off. He is now getting judgements and lawsuits. Same job as always just went downhill due to circumstances I wont disclose. The point is there is no "invincible". Bad things happen to good people. If you loaned out money without a risk modeling service you would go under FAST. I am not saying it doesnt suck but you get all the points back in a couple of months and if you dont open new accounts often you likely wont notice the difference anyway.
Message 7 of 14
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: What's Fair about Isaac?

[If you can explain a better formula for how to decide who gets dinged for opening a new account and who doesnt that makes sense I will gladly support you in presenting it to them.]

 

 So you work for Fair Isaac?  You must feel pretty powerful.  I told you my solution in my previous post:  FICO should look at the score of the applicant (whether for a CC or a loan or refi).  If it's over 700, they shouldn't get their score lowered.  700 proves they're responsible.

 

[I dont think you can say just because they have a high credit score means they wont go down. For example I had a friend whos dad had EXCELLENT credit all the years we grew up. Post High-School he bought a new house after paying off the first one and gave the first house to my friend.]

 

 That was was a big mistake.

 

[They always drove new cars every two or three years they would trade them in for another new one. He could get credit anywhere he wanted. Fast forward a couple of years he had two cars repossesed, his home foreclosed on, and credit cards charged off. He is now getting judgements and lawsuits.]

 

 Maybe he went crazy.  Why was he not behaving that irresponsibly before?  Why does one deadbeat have to make life miserable for the rest of us?

 

[Same job as always just went downhill due to circumstances I wont disclose.]

 

Like he got laid off because all our jobs are being sent overseas?  I have a friend who did deep troubleshooting for HP.  By "deep" I mean he knew the machines and every bit of software.  He got laid off and now someone  in Bangladesh is reading a help manual that won't do huge companies that use HP mainframes any good.  Is that good business?  To endanger the whole economy tomake huger profits?

 

[The point is there is no "invincible". Bad things happen to good people.]

 

And FICO adds to that.  

 

[If you loaned out money without a risk modeling service you would go under FAST.]

 

I investigate my rental applicants, which is similar.  I even rented to a family that had gone into bankrupcy, after interviewing them and their grown kids a couple of times. They always paid on time and left the house sparkling. I had a tough clause on paying late. 

 

[I am not saying it doesnt suck but you get all the points back in a couple of months

 

Previously you said a year, and FICO told me "one or two years".  If it was a "couple" of months it wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[and if you dont open new accounts often you likely wont notice the difference anyway.]

 

I don't.  But I was shopping for a refi and although the companies said their inquiry would be "soft", they came through "hard" & lowered my score.  I was able to get one of them to convince the credit bureaus that they'd meant for it to be "soft" but in the other case, the guy never made an effort, and, because he worked for Countrywide, and B of A didn't have a record of our phone calls, I had to wait it out.

Message 8 of 14
bigtim
Frequent Contributor

Re: What's Fair about Isaac?


@Anonymous wrote:

  I'd like to get an ARCO card so I wouldn't have keep getting cash & go inside to pay & go back to get my refund & receipt.  But if I do, my score will go down.  Whenever I ask the FICO people a question, like if I apply for a gas card will it lower my score, the answer is always unsympathetic.  "Yes it WILL," as if I'm about to commit a crime & asked if I might end up in jail.  And they never tell by how much.   Being a FICO person must give you a real sense of power.


Here's my opinion: It MIGHT drop your score, depending on your current report. They probably gave you the "generally speaking" answer - that inquiries/new accounts WILL drop your score. I've opened new accounts, and between the inquiry/new account my score didn't drop at all. But, after a couple of more inquiries & accounts, my score did drop - minimally. I must have hit the "threshold"...?

 

So if you really want (need) that new account, I wouldn't sweat it much, unless you expect it to lower your score significantly (which I doubt), and put you in a lower credit tier. The points will rebound over time...

 

On a personal note, it sounds to me like you're overreacting a bit about this scoring thing. If your score is OK and you really need or want this new account to make your life easier, like NIKE says - just do it Smiley Happy

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Message 9 of 14
MarineVietVet
Moderator Emeritus

Re: What's Fair about Isaac?


@Anonymous wrote:

[Just in case anyone is interested FICO was founded in 1956 as Fair Isaac by engineer Bill Fair and mathematician Earl Isaac.]

 

I think Mr. Fair should have stuck to engineering and Mr. Isaac should have stuck to math.  FICO runs our lives now.  I'd like to get an ARCO card so I wouldn't have keep getting cash & go inside to pay & go back to get my refund & receipt.  But if I do, my score will go down.  Whenever I ask the FICO people a question, like if I apply for a gas card will it lower my score, the answer is always unsympathetic.  "Yes it WILL," as if I'm about to commit a crime & asked if I might end up in jail.  And they never tell by how much.   Being a FICO person must give you a real sense of power.


I didn't know I was a FICO person. I was just trying to answer a question about who Isaac is. I thought there might be other people who were curious about how the name FairIsaac came about. No more and no less. I didn't mean to offend you.

Message Edited by marinevietvet on 12-22-2009 06:29 PM
Message 10 of 14
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