unexpected TU 04 (mort) / 08 diff

[expatCanuck]

In the midst of a mortgage refi.  I'd been well-behaved for 7 months, and my FICO 08's were 848/827/839 (EQ/EX/TU), so I figured, 'no worries'.

Inquiry results arrived the other day.  The corresponding mortgage scores were 815 (fine), 798 (ok), and ... 769 (huh?).

Yep -- a 70-point difference between my TU 08 and mortgage scores.  And that TU 08 score has been 839 since April.

Who'd have thunk? 

(Moral: Don't get cavalier.)

[Anonymous]

How do your number of accounts with a balance look?  I've found that at AZEO I have about a 30 point difference between my Fico 8 and Fico 4 scores, where if I move to all accounts with a balance (small balances) that gap can very easily double. 

[expatCanuck]

Five of 17 accounts have balances (2/14 CC's (nominal balances), 1 personal loan (about 70% owing), 1 HELoan and 1 mortgage -- ample LTV, but both loans just north of 80% owing).

Thought it odd that TU would be such an outlier.

[Anonymous]

Have you tried going to just 1 revolver with a balance?  That would drop you from 30% of total accounts with a balance to 24%.  If there's a threshold at 25%, it could mean possible score improvement.

[dragontears]

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@expatCanuck wrote:

In the midst of a mortgage refi.  I'd been well-behaved for 7 months, and my FICO 08's were 848/827/839 (EQ/EX/TU), so I figured, 'no worries'.

Inquiry results arrived the other day.  The corresponding mortgage scores were 815 (fine), 798 (ok), and ... 769 (huh?).

Yep -- a 70-point difference between my TU 08 and mortgage scores.  And that TU 08 score has been 839 since April.

Who'd have thunk? 

(Moral: Don't get cavalier.)

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I had the same thing with TU.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Mortgage-score-variation-between-EX-and-...

As you can see in my thread there was no theory on the difference even though my TU and EX profiles are the same. 

[expatCanuck]

I'll be more focused on having only one CC reporting going forward.  The second card was likely a Chase card, which I typically allow to report and then pay it to zero within a day or 3.

[Anonymous]

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@expatCanuck wrote:

Inquiry results arrived the other day.  The corresponding mortgage scores were 815 (fine), 798 (ok), and ... 769 (huh?).

Yep -- a 70-point difference between my TU 08 and mortgage scores.  And that TU 08 score has been 839 since April.

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Having a myFICO Premier subscription has allowed me to track the reason statements quite well each month.

One big difference with TU4 compared to the other mortgage scores happened when the age of my newest account was over 1 year (AoYA/AoYRA 1yr 2mo). It was the only mortgage score showing 'Recently opened new account'. (I wonder if this reason is there on the other scores as well, but off the Top 4 list at #5 or something?)

And 'High Revolving Balances' moved from #4 to #2, with a $539 to $1215 aggregate balance change (5% to 9%).

This is what happened moving from 1 of 2 with a balance (AZEO, 50% cards) to 2 of 2 with a balance (Off AZEO, 100% cards).

AoYA 1yr 1mo to AoYA 1yr 2mo:

FICO 8	TU	754	-7	747
[Change]	Short credit history, No recent loan activity, Too many accounts with balances, Short revolving credit history
	Short credit history, No recent loan activity, Short revolving credit history, Too many accounts with balances

FICO 5	EQ	736	-7	729
[Change]	Short credit history, Balances on non-mortgage credit accounts are too high, Short revolving credit history, High revolving balances
	Short credit history, Short revolving credit history, High revolving balances, Heavy use of revolving credit
FICO 4	TU	740	-5	735
[Change]	Short credit history, High revolving balances, No recent loan activity, Recently opened new credit account
	Short credit history, No recent loan activity, Recently opened new credit account, High revolving balances
FICO 2	EX	734	-10	724
[Change]	Short credit history, Short revolving credit history, High revolving balances, Too many accounts with balances
	Short credit history, Short revolving credit history, No recent loan activity, Too many accounts with balances

Quick takeway: Mortgage scores have higher weighting on the balance amounts compared to the utilization percentage. TU4 might be the only one to consider an account 'new' past 1 year.

[expatCanuck]

Thanks very much, @Anonymous. 

When you mention balance amounts, are you speaking of card balances, loan balances, or both?

(In my case, the two card balances were de minimus -- 1-2% per card, with the total about 1/3 of a percent of available aggregate credit.)

Your point about recent accounts is well-taken. I obtained one card last October. another in November, and took out a smallish (for me) personal loan in December.  At no time did my FICO 8 scores drop below 820.  I'm 5/24 now, and will be 3/24 in November.

[Anonymous]

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@expatCanuck wrote:

Thanks very much, @Anonymous. 

When you mention balance amounts, are you speaking of card balances, loan balances, or both?

(In my case, the two card balances were de minimus -- 1-2% per card, with the total about 1/3 of a percent of available aggregate credit.)

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I meant that the card balance amounts - in dollars, not percentage - may affect TU 4 more than EQ5/EX2, and definitely more than TU 8.

I don't know if that's affecting you here, because I don't know what a 1/3 of a percent aggregate means in dollars - you could have a six-figure credit limit that puts that over $1000.

I know that my scorecard (under 3yrs total history, under 2yrs revolving) is more sensitive than most, but I did see 'High Revolving Balances' change from the #4 spot to #2 on TU 4 when my total balance changed from $539 to $1215.

[expatCanuck]

About $825 owed -- $250 on one (~ 1%), $575 on the other (<2%).  (Yeah, those cards have healthy limits; my aggregate is healthier still.)

The EX 2 Score Factors are:

Many new accounts. (fair)

Short account history (the newish ones, yeah, but my oldest is 20 years: I guess you're penalized for anything under 1 year -- and I have 3))

Seeking credit (yeah, Oct-Dec of 2019)

Accounts with balances (yeah -- 2 CC, a mortgage, a HELoan and a personal loan)

Bottom line - the TU algorithm is whack more onerous / less forgiving than EX and EQ, because the same factors exist for all the bureaus.  Happily, the middle score (798) applies.