Short AAoA - Apply for Installment alone or simultaneously with Card App?

[Anonymous]

Also, on the Chase charge-off -- I charged off Chase for around $8000 or so back in 2007 or so.  Might have been 2009, I can't remember.  I do know it happened because whenever I sat down with my personal banker for YEARS, his screen always showed in bold red letters "Customer has charged off account with Chase".  

Then in May of this year, with pretty terrible FICO scores, Chase actually pre-approved me for Freedom and Freedom Unlimited.  The offers appeared on my logged in "your offers" page.  I accepted just Freedom Unlimited and got a $500 toy limit, but I'm back in.  So Chase DOES forgiven.

Downside is they haven't auto CLI'd me even with heavy usage -- I just hit statement #7 I believe, and no auto CLI.  Also, no new offers at all.  I check every Monday (Chase supposedly updates the offers page every Sunday).  Nada.

I do hope they'll let me back in for a second card (CSP but CSR preferred) but so far nothing.  But one card is better than zero!

Great data point on underwriting offering to transfer you to collections -- I had no idea this department even exists.  I'll call Chase tomorrow and see.  If paying off my ancient CO with Chase means it'll be removed from my history (or help me get CSP/CSR), I'd pay it in a heartbeat even though it's long gone from my CRAs.  I have no issue paying what I owe to the original creditor even if it's long past the SOL.  

[Gratitude]

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@pizza1 wrote:

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Read tons of posts; thanks for all the help from you guys / continued online research;
Used a great tool to simulate overview of accounts and calculate AAoA  (thanks to our freind @Anonymous);  yes, this poster contributes a lot of good info/stats  - Indeed! Folks, check out 850x3.com

Decided on App Spree on 12/14/17 - in this sequence: 

1. App'd CF & CSP (simultaneously) = We need to review/ 30 Days (shugs shoulders...eh, big deal, alot of folks get this)
2. CLI  request BBV - from $3,000 (+$2300) to $5300 = instant approval!  great!! congrats - felt like I went low but extremely grateful!
3. App'd - Installment Loan (online app after calling in for details) = 24hr standard reply (will know later) who was the lender you applied with for the loan? Southeast Fiancial - anyone know anything about them?

Got the Chase backdoor number  (with option to speak to rep) from Backdoor Numbers thread;

Called > automated system told me "answer within 2 weeks" {better than 30 days!} > spoke to nice rep who put me on hold to check status then got an analyst (very nice lady) - this is what I recall:

  Analyst: "shows you've been decline for having too many open accounts"

  Me: "Ma'am, I do not have any credit card accounts open with Chase,  though i've just been a banking customer for 7yrs"

  Analyst: "I see you applied for 2 cards on the 14th"
  Me:"Yes, 'that's correct"

  Analyst: {after going further through her terminal} "It shows here you have a Charge-Off with us"

  Me:"Wait, What?...Charge-Off?? from when?" {Mind is racing}

  Analyst:"....2007 .. You will receive a letter and can check your credit report"
  Me: "Ma'am, I check my credit report all of the time, have been for a months now, I only have two credit cards - both in great shape - no  derogatory information at all"

  Analyst:"Our information indicates a Charge off for $5K, would you like me to connect you to our Collections department to investigate it?"
 Me:{memory comes flooding in/ had a clean slate for years / thinking about their recon line} "Im going to check my records, can I call you back?"  good answer

 Analyst: "yes of course"

Yesterday I watched my FICO score drop in real time as an 8% balance was reported from my Merrick Bank Secured Visa;
This morning I watched FICO drop further due to Inquiries being reported (so far only the 1 Chase inquiry, Installment hasn't hit yet);

Now I am reminded of a Charge-Off from 10years ago that I've totally forgotten as all info on my credit report from the past was gone... I'd been Gardening before recently learning the term - 17yrs before entering the credit arena again. I wouldnt worry so much about the drop in scores, its only tempoary, and you'll start to see them go back up over time slowly over next few months.

Now, totally nervous about the Installment loan approval; 

worried about score dropping after all this hard work and patience; its normal for one to see a score drop for INQ/New accts/ higher than normal revolving util reporting etc....I wouldnt worry so much about that, as it will start to go back up over time. 

totally confused as to how to approach Chase on the recon line - 

Feeling quite stupid:  Dont feel stupid, a lot of lenders have their own "internal databases", and can see past debts CO/BK from many years back. One poster here said that Amex saw their BK/CO on their card from 28 years ago. I personally had a Chase CO/DC'ed debt in BK, but they were able to see that in their internal records even though it was no longer reporting on my credit reports. 

Did I just totally screw up by app'ing the wrong bank!? ...The only one that could see this outdated information??.  No, you didnt.  You didnt know that since the debt was no longer showing on your reports, that Chase would still have an internal record of it. 

This Charge-OFF does NOT appear on my credit report! and my foolish assumption (a decade ago) is that "all is forgiven after 7 years"   If the debt was never paid, then technically you still owe it, but there is a statuate of limitations on collections of old debt.  Check your state for the time.  Did you ever get a 1099-C form in the mail from Chase? If so, Chase cant collect on a debt that was issued a 1099-C for.  Don't know for sure if they ever mailed one because I moved - mail forwarding hadn't been the greatest - however my Statute of Lim in my state -  we are definitely beyond it.

What is the best course with Chase at this point?    read my answer above. 

• Abandon?
• Recon? I always say to recon!! I must have apped for the Amazon Visa more than a dozen times, and reconned, with failure, but then one day it took just one agent to listen to my story, and BAM.....approved for $3k, after their $7k CO/BK from like 10 yrs ago.  Ive had that card for a year now in perfect standing. Wow a dozen apps on the same card..? That gives hope for sure. I will share the truth of my story from over 10yrs - hopefully the right person with the ability to see how imaculate I have become will be on the line.  If they grant the lessor of the 2 cards its a victory and opportunity to rebuild the relationship. Is my 7 years of Business & Personal Banking with them impactful enough?
• Payment plan with collections? - that gurantees nothing on approval anytime soon. I would assume you are way past the staue of limitations of collections of this debt now,  YES. and if you were issued a 1099-C for that debt to the IRS, they cant collect on that anyways. Do you remember getting that form? NO. You would have probably received it within the last 5-7 years, as most companies will /can issue one to the IRS after 36months of no payments on the acct.  So NO obligation, but: What if I offered to settle the debt (perhaps 10cents on the dollar) in exchange for just the CF / low SL - if I go above X UTL within first 12months, Chase closes account?
•  other?

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Thanks Pizza1 !!   
see my reply & questions above.  

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FICO: 
EX 12/7: 721  |  12/17: 706
TU 12/7: 742  |  12/17: 740
EX 12/7: 736  |   12/17: 728

• Merrick Bank Secured Visa ($1500) - approved January 2016  
• BestBuy Visa ($3000)- approved April 2017 / CLI 12/14 to ($5300)

AAoA = 16months

[Gratitude]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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You should never, ever, ever opt-out of prescreened offers.  There is no purpose to this.  If you did opt-out, opt back in or you will NEVER get preapproved offers from anyone.  Understood. At the time I only had the 1 card (secured) and had no intentions of applying for anything until I knew I'd get approved for hopefully the best possible unsecured card next. So I filtered out the noise (and I have a serious aversion to junk mail).. I will opt back in today!

Note: the Chase "no offers" page references prescreen offers opt-out but it doesn't mean you're opted out.  I don't have any offers, I'm opted-in but I get the same error page.

Auto loans and RV loans typically tend to focus more on DTI and payment history than recent inquiries.  Depends on the lender, of course.  I was approved for a boat loan with horrible FICO scores (I think I was at 590?) with 20% down and the inquiries I had weren't even glanced at.  They looked my FICO score, LTV, DTI and recent payment history before approving me (for $35,000 as long as LTV was 80%).  Thank you for sharing this!  it gives more than hope. I have 10% down and DTI is super low. Looking forward to good news tomorrow, will update you guys.

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[pizza1]

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@Gratitude wrote:

---

@pizza1 wrote:

---

Read tons of posts; thanks for all the help from you guys / continued online research;
Used a great tool to simulate overview of accounts and calculate AAoA  (thanks to our freind @Anonymous);  yes, this poster contributes a lot of good info/stats  - Indeed! Folks, check out 850x3.com

Decided on App Spree on 12/14/17 - in this sequence: 

1. App'd CF & CSP (simultaneously) = We need to review/ 30 Days (shugs shoulders...eh, big deal, alot of folks get this)
2. CLI  request BBV - from $3,000 (+$2300) to $5300 = instant approval!  great!! congrats - felt like I went low but extremely grateful!
3. App'd - Installment Loan (online app after calling in for details) = 24hr standard reply (will know later) who was the lender you applied with for the loan? Southeast Fiancial - anyone know anything about them?

Got the Chase backdoor number  (with option to speak to rep) from Backdoor Numbers thread;

Called > automated system told me "answer within 2 weeks" {better than 30 days!} > spoke to nice rep who put me on hold to check status then got an analyst (very nice lady) - this is what I recall:

  Analyst: "shows you've been decline for having too many open accounts"

  Me: "Ma'am, I do not have any credit card accounts open with Chase,  though i've just been a banking customer for 7yrs"

  Analyst: "I see you applied for 2 cards on the 14th"
  Me:"Yes, 'that's correct"

  Analyst: {after going further through her terminal} "It shows here you have a Charge-Off with us"

  Me:"Wait, What?...Charge-Off?? from when?" {Mind is racing}

  Analyst:"....2007 .. You will receive a letter and can check your credit report"
  Me: "Ma'am, I check my credit report all of the time, have been for a months now, I only have two credit cards - both in great shape - no  derogatory information at all"

  Analyst:"Our information indicates a Charge off for $5K, would you like me to connect you to our Collections department to investigate it?"
 Me:{memory comes flooding in/ had a clean slate for years / thinking about their recon line} "Im going to check my records, can I call you back?"  good answer

 Analyst: "yes of course"

Yesterday I watched my FICO score drop in real time as an 8% balance was reported from my Merrick Bank Secured Visa;
This morning I watched FICO drop further due to Inquiries being reported (so far only the 1 Chase inquiry, Installment hasn't hit yet);

Now I am reminded of a Charge-Off from 10years ago that I've totally forgotten as all info on my credit report from the past was gone... I'd been Gardening before recently learning the term - 17yrs before entering the credit arena again. I wouldnt worry so much about the drop in scores, its only tempoary, and you'll start to see them go back up over time slowly over next few months.

Now, totally nervous about the Installment loan approval; 

worried about score dropping after all this hard work and patience; its normal for one to see a score drop for INQ/New accts/ higher than normal revolving util reporting etc....I wouldnt worry so much about that, as it will start to go back up over time. 

totally confused as to how to approach Chase on the recon line - 

Feeling quite stupid:  Dont feel stupid, a lot of lenders have their own "internal databases", and can see past debts CO/BK from many years back. One poster here said that Amex saw their BK/CO on their card from 28 years ago. I personally had a Chase CO/DC'ed debt in BK, but they were able to see that in their internal records even though it was no longer reporting on my credit reports. 

Did I just totally screw up by app'ing the wrong bank!? ...The only one that could see this outdated information??.  No, you didnt.  You didnt know that since the debt was no longer showing on your reports, that Chase would still have an internal record of it. 

This Charge-OFF does NOT appear on my credit report! and my foolish assumption (a decade ago) is that "all is forgiven after 7 years"   If the debt was never paid, then technically you still owe it, but there is a statuate of limitations on collections of old debt.  Check your state for the time.  Did you ever get a 1099-C form in the mail from Chase? If so, Chase cant collect on a debt that was issued a 1099-C for.  Don't know for sure if they ever mailed one because I moved - mail forwarding hadn't been the greatest - however my Statute of Lim in my state -  we are definitely beyond it.

What is the best course with Chase at this point?    read my answer above. 

• Abandon?
• Recon? I always say to recon!! I must have apped for the Amazon Visa more than a dozen times, and reconned, with failure, but then one day it took just one agent to listen to my story, and BAM.....approved for $3k, after their $7k CO/BK from like 10 yrs ago.  Ive had that card for a year now in perfect standing. Wow a dozen apps on the same card..? That gives hope for sure. I will share the truth of my story from over 10yrs - hopefully the right person with the ability to see how imaculate I have become will be on the line.  If they grant the lessor of the 2 cards its a victory and opportunity to rebuild the relationship. Is my 7 years of Business & Personal Banking with them impactful enough?
• Payment plan with collections? - that gurantees nothing on approval anytime soon. I would assume you are way past the staue of limitations of collections of this debt now,  YES. and if you were issued a 1099-C for that debt to the IRS, they cant collect on that anyways. Do you remember getting that form? NO. You would have probably received it within the last 5-7 years, as most companies will /can issue one to the IRS after 36months of no payments on the acct.  So NO obligation, but: What if I offered to settle the debt (perhaps 10cents on the dollar) in exchange for just the CF / low SL - if I go above X UTL within first 12months, Chase closes account?
•  other?

---

Thanks Pizza1 !!   
see my reply & questions above.  

---

FICO: 
EX 12/7: 721  |  12/17: 706
TU 12/7: 742  |  12/17: 740
EX 12/7: 736  |   12/17: 728

• Merrick Bank Secured Visa ($1500) - approved January 2016  
• BestBuy Visa ($3000)- approved April 2017 / CLI 12/14 to ($5300)

AAoA = 16months

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I personally would go into your Chase Bank, and talk to the Manager in private, and him/her the situaiton.  Having a banking relationship does help in situaitons like these.  Do not offer to pay anything at this point,  "ill do this if you'll do that", not an option.  Your branch manager could have some influence, and make a call directly on your behalf, citing your banking relationship for so many years, and you are unaware of this CO etc... try the branch first, then report back here. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I bet you'll be approved.  10% down (90% LTV) is still pretty great.  I have a lot of car finance manager 'friends' in my extended network and they've always been able to approve folks with even 560 scores with 20% down so I assume 10% down will get you in!  Please do follow up.

And the myth that too many credit cards hurts a person is one that I hear every day, so don't feel bad that you just didn't know or realize it.  The good news is that you know it now, and you have the tools of folks here who can give you great guidance.  Remember, the second worst thing to have no credit is having too much low quality credit too soon, so don't be in a rush.  Plan your apps in advance, set up your goals early, and work through it meticulously.  The more work you do up front, the better the outcome is later.

[Gratitude]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Also, on the Chase charge-off -- I charged off Chase for around $8000 or so back in 2007 or so.  Might have been 2009, I can't remember.  I do know it happened because whenever I sat down with my personal banker for YEARS, his screen always showed in bold red letters "Customer has charged off account with Chase".  

Then in May of this year, with pretty terrible FICO scores, Chase actually pre-approved me for Freedom and Freedom Unlimited.  The offers appeared on my logged in "your offers" page.  I accepted just Freedom Unlimited and got a $500 toy limit, but I'm back in.  So Chase DOES forgiven.

Downside is they haven't auto CLI'd me even with heavy usage -- I just hit statement #7 I believe, and no auto CLI.  Also, no new offers at all.  I check every Monday (Chase supposedly updates the offers page every Sunday).  Nada.

I do hope they'll let me back in for a second card (CSP but CSR preferred) but so far nothing.  But one card is better than zero!

Great data point on underwriting offering to transfer you to collections -- I had no idea this department even exists.  I'll call Chase tomorrow and see.  If paying off my ancient CO with Chase means it'll be removed from my history (or help me get CSP/CSR), I'd pay it in a heartbeat even though it's long gone from my CRAs.  I have no issue paying what I owe to the original creditor even if it's long past the SOL.  

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Yey for Chase! Forgiveness is golden!  And congrats to you - I would defintiely appreciate a card, low SL as opposed to decline. 

If you are going to call them on Monday: Chase: @Anonymous-945-2000 (App status with option to speak to rep.).  @Anonymous , you were the one who told me about the Backdoor Numbers thread - thanks!! And thanks to @Anonymous for originally supplying that number.

I was thinking to offer a settlement number -- you are suggesting pay it all in full? Would you do this without an agreement for new card approval?  (Not sure they'd even give such a thing) ..My assumption is that you will say yes as Chase has demonstrated forgiveness personally for you.

[Anonymous]

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@Gratitude wrote:

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I was thinking to offer a settlement number -- you are suggesting pay it all in full? Would you do this without an agreement for new card approval?  (Not sure they'd even give such a thing) ..My assumption is that you will say yes as Chase has demonstrated forgiveness personally for you.

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I have no idea what to offer, haven't called yet to inquire.  For all I know, they don't even have any desire to collect on credit they already wrote off, but I know that companies like Amex will let people pay back bad debts from 20 years ago.  So I have no idea what they may ask or bring up.

I will call them for sure and report back.  From what I know, the card was around $8000 when I stopped paying on it.  It was actually a Citi store card that I was literally 3 days away from me missing my first payment.  Then Citi sold the portfolio to Chase, and I never opened a bill again.  I didn't even KNOW it was sold to Chase but when they bought it, it went 30D->charge off right away.

Citi never reported the card late, in fact the card still shows up on my credit report as "always paid on time" but it will drop off in 2018 unfortunately.  If Chase reported the card at all, I don't see it because I didn't pull my credit reports from 2010->2017 at all.  So no clue there.  If Chase assigned it to collectors, those also aren't on my reports (as of 3/17 which was my first report in 7+ years).

I assume if they still "own" the debt, it's there.  If they tell me what I owe, I'll just tell them the truth: I was married to someone who wasn't financially wise and I no longer am, and I have a significant net worth and income to support spending and I would love to get back in with Chase by making good on my past misdeeds when I was much younger and much stupider.  I'll ask point blank what would paying the old debt do for me with Chase in the future, and what will it take to have it scrubbed and deleted entirely from the history books.  If they demand 100% payment, I'd do it, honestly.  It doesn't bother me -- I don't pay collectors ever, but I will always pay original lenders for my misdeeds of the past. But I am also in a financial position where I can pay for those mistakes.

[DaveInAZ]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Gratitude wrote:

@ ABCD2199 - Thank you. I've tried this link: no luck...  Seems if one has opted out of "pre-screened" offers you  are unable to see if you pre-qualify with Chase.

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You should never, ever, ever opt-out of prescreened offers.  There is no purpose to this.  If you did opt-out, opt back in or you will NEVER get preapproved offers from anyone.

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While agree that with Gratitude's limited credit profile opting out of prescreened offers probably is not helpful, they might get some decent offers. But I disagree that opting out of prescreened offers has no purpose. I've been happily opted out for almost a year now. With a seasoned profile I hadn't gotten an offer I would consider in years, but because I carry a couple grand in CC balances I was getting several offers weekly from just about every personal loan outfit out there. My CC balances are all 0% intro or BTs, so I'm not interested in borrowing money at 10%+ to pay them off early. And the offers usually came with pre-approval codes and as we were having a problem with mail theft in the area that concerned me. I'm very happy having a mailbox empty of offers, and as I'm not in the market for a new CC I don't use the pre-approval CC sites.

Gratitude- Well, the Chase denial was just a "glitch" with you having forgotten abotu the Chase charge-off years ago that you forgot about but Chase hasn't. You might try for a Cit card, or Discover.

[Gratitude]

@DaveInAZ - As for the prescreened opt out,  mail theft was also my concern (identity theft is a gruesome nightmare); additionally my address has shown to be an issue with USPS. Making sure mail came to my house and that only I retrieved it was a concern especially when I knew I'd get a bunch of subpar offers. 

Having said that, opting back in as @ABCD2199 at this point seems wise at this time (actually after the dust settles tomorrow on Installment app verdict and Chase recon).

This may have fallen into the cracks of the thread - I've been asked: but why Chase? 

Other than the 7yr business & personal banking relationship, It CHASE who emailed me about prescreened offers, weeks after I called them letting them know that I've opted out and wanted to know If I was eligible for any of their cards. No Charge-Off came up at anytime during that call. Further, I was unable to enroll at Chase.com as I had no credit account with them, so I could not find out if I had anything with them prequal definitely no access to anything derogatory.

With my FICO scores approx 733; concern about my UTL shooting up /AAoA  decreasing from Installment loan; and all that I've learned here on the forum I just decided to go for it.

So it begs to ask.. why did I receive this email and then be prevented from accessing the site to find out:

[DaveInAZ]

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@Gratitude wrote:

@DaveInAZ - As for the prescreened opt out,  mail theft was also my concern (identity theft is a gruesome nightmare); additionally my address has shown to be an issue with USPS. Making sure mail came to my house and that only I retrieved it was a concern especially when I knew I'd get a bunch of subpar offers. 

@Having said that, opting back in as @Anonymous at this point seems wise at this time (actually after the dust settles tomorrow on Installment app verdict and Chase recon).

This may have fallen into the cracks of the thread - I've been asked: but why Chase? 

Other than the 7yr business & personal banking relationship, It CHASE who emailed me about prescreened offers, weeks after I called them letting them know that I've opted out and wanted to know If I was eligible for any of their cards. No Charge-Off came up at anytime during that call. Further, I was unable to enroll at Chase.com as I had no credit account with them, so I could not find out if I had anything with them prequal definitely no access to anything derogatory.

With my FICO scores approx 733; concern about my UTL shooting up /AAoA  decreasing from Installment loan; and all that I've learned here on the forum I just decided to go for it.

So it begs to ask.. why did I receive this email and then be prevented from accessing the site to find out:

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You probably got the email because you have the banking relationship with them and your credit scores looked good to them, they didn't scour their internal files and find your charge-off long ago until you applied. That's not pre-screening, prescreening is a creditor sending a purchase request to a credit bureau along the lines of "give me a list of people with a minimum of xxx credit score and other qualifiecations". I had an account with US Bank last fall primarily for the new account bonus, and they emailed me pre-quals for CCs, and I've been opted out of pre-screen offers for some time. I didn't bite.