A worthwhile app? (First Tech / PIN related)

[UpperNwGuy]

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@redpat wrote:

Euros always work for me if I needed a PIN.

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What are you saying?

[wasCB14]

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@digitek wrote:

I was eyeballing that State Department FCU 2% card, but it sounds like it is similar to First Tech in that they are conservative and don't like large total credit limits.  I almost went for a First Tech card awhile ago but realized I would hardly ever use it.  It would be nice to have, but even when travelling overseas I'd likely use my CSR first most of the time anyway (great 24/7 customer service and better cash back at restaurants).  I'd use the State Department card as my daily driver I think even while stateside.  Citi DC has been good to me, but never did like the FTF on it, and State Department card also has Cell Phone insurance built in.

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Spotterswiki gives conflicting answers as to the CVM list of SDFCU cards. I've not heard them mentioned as primary PIN before, so I think they are primary signature. They still look good as general travel cards, though a bit superfluous for me.

[UpperNwGuy]

SDFCU just issued a new card in April that allows the cardholder to select how the PIN is programmed.  The two choices are PIN priority and signature priority.  All of their older cards are still signature priority.

[Anonymous]

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@wasCB14 

True...there is something to be said for convenience...

I'll think it over for 24 or 48 hours.

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Speaking of convenience, as someone with multiple PIN preferring cards I can tell you right now that it can be somewhat of a hassle in the US as many smaller stores and restaurants pretty much assume that every card is chip and signature. (It's a significant reason why pay at the table isn't a thing here, for instance.) In fact, I've had several merchants early on in the EMV transition flat out reject the card altogether and demand alternate payment because of the PIN prompt on the terminal that customers can't access.

That said, I think at least some issuers have gotten better at allowing transactions without a PIN so it may not be as big of an issue as in the past. In my testing, UNFCU seems to accept such transactions while Diners Club still does not. Of course, this neuters a lot of the security advantage but it's probably better than people flat out not using their cards at all.

[wasCB14]

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@UpperNwGuy wrote:

SDFCU just issued a new card in April that allows the cardholder to select how the PIN is programmed.  The two choices are PIN priority and signature priority.  All of their older cards are still signature priority.

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So the selection is only available for the Premium Cash Back+. Good to know.

[wasCB14]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@wasCB14 

True...there is something to be said for convenience...

I'll think it over for 24 or 48 hours.

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Speaking of convenience, as someone with multiple PIN preferring cards I can tell you right now that it can be somewhat of a hassle in the US as many smaller stores and restaurants pretty much assume that every card is chip and signature. (It's a significant reason why pay at the table isn't a thing here, for instance.) In fact, I've had several merchants early on in the EMV transition flat out reject the card altogether and demand alternate payment because of the PIN prompt on the terminal that customers can't access.

That said, I think at least some issuers have gotten better at allowing transactions without a PIN so it may not be as big of an issue as in the past. In my testing, UNFCU seems to accept such transactions while Diners Club still does not. Of course, this neuters a lot of the security advantage but it's probably better than people flat out not using their cards at all.

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I would not use a PIN card domestically much. I might even just use it to buy some Costco Cash (for minimum spend) and then put infrequent small charges on it until I'm out of the country. Of course, the issuer might not like that.

One factor in favor of a CSR-heavy strategy is that while signing paper slips can mean delays, if there's any fraud or I need a mid-travel replacement card, Chase can expedite it to me mid-travel. I'm not aware of any CUs that do that.

[Anonymous]

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@wasCB14 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@wasCB14 

True...there is something to be said for convenience...

I'll think it over for 24 or 48 hours.

---

Speaking of convenience, as someone with multiple PIN preferring cards I can tell you right now that it can be somewhat of a hassle in the US as many smaller stores and restaurants pretty much assume that every card is chip and signature. (It's a significant reason why pay at the table isn't a thing here, for instance.) In fact, I've had several merchants early on in the EMV transition flat out reject the card altogether and demand alternate payment because of the PIN prompt on the terminal that customers can't access.

That said, I think at least some issuers have gotten better at allowing transactions without a PIN so it may not be as big of an issue as in the past. In my testing, UNFCU seems to accept such transactions while Diners Club still does not. Of course, this neuters a lot of the security advantage but it's probably better than people flat out not using their cards at all.

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I would not use a PIN card domestically much. I might even just use it to buy some Costco Cash (for minimum spend) and then put infrequent small charges on it until I'm out of the country. Of course, the issuer might not like that.

One factor in favor of a CSR-heavy strategy is that while signing paper slips can mean delays, if there's any fraud or I need a mid-travel replacement card, Chase can expedite it to me mid-travel. I'm not aware of any CUs that do that.

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IMO, the best PIN preferring card is still Diners Club. Contactless support (which Europe is increasingly moving to, to the point where inserting at all is being seen as a hassle), points transferrable to airlines and hotels, lounge access, primary CDW coverage, the list goes on. Unfortunately it's very unlikely apps will ever reopen for it. 

Of course, much of the above can be worked around. Apple Pay, for instance, works at the same places where you can tap a card. CSR has Priority Pass and primary CDW, not to mention Ultimate Rewards. Heck, I'm not even sure PIN is really all that necessary for Europe anymore considering my experience with contactless in the UK last year. (The card networks are mandating contactless support for every terminal in Europe by 2020.)

Speaking of Priority Pass, UNFCU's highest tier card offers it. Their UW is a bit strict for it, however; I was denied despite having a 800+ credit score and was counteroffered the no-AF Azure card.

[wasCB14]

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@Anonymous wrote:
IMO, the best PIN preferring card is still Diners Club. Contactless support (which Europe is increasingly moving to, to the point where inserting at all is being seen as a hassle), points transferrable to airlines and hotels, lounge access, primary CDW coverage, the list goes on. Unfortunately it's very unlikely apps will ever reopen for it. 

Of course, much of the above can be worked around. Apple Pay, for instance, works at the same places where you can tap a card. CSR has Priority Pass and primary CDW, not to mention Ultimate Rewards. Heck, I'm not even sure PIN is really all that necessary for Europe anymore considering my experience with contactless in the UK last year. (The card networks are mandating contactless support for every terminal there by 2020.)

Speaking of Priority Pass, UNFCU's highest tier card offers it. Their UW is a bit strict for it, however; I was denied despite having a 800+ credit score and was counteroffered the no-AF Azure card.

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While I might do some bonus chasing, I really have all the AF "keeper" cards I could want (and three sources of Priority Pass, two of which I plan to keep long-term). Diners Club sounds good in itself but doesn't seem to offer much beyond my CSR.

My Costco card is contactless, has no FTF, and no AF (as I'd be a member even without the card).

I'm leaning to think that what I have, combined with a new phone, should be quite sufficient.

[UpperNwGuy]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@wasCB14 Speaking of Priority Pass, UNFCU's highest tier card offers it. Their UW is a bit strict for it, however; I was denied despite having a 800+ credit score and was counteroffered the no-AF Azure card.

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Like you, I was denied for the UNFCU Elite for $20,000 despite having 800+ scores.  I think they thought I had too much credit already.  They counteroffered the no annual fee Azure card for $5,000, and I took it.  Now I'm glad I didn't get the Elite.  The annual fee on the Elite would be hard to earn back on a  card that I would only use in Europe.

[UpperNwGuy]

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@wasCB14 wrote:

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@Anonymous One factor in favor of a CSR-heavy strategy is that while signing paper slips can mean delays, if there's any fraud or I need a mid-travel replacement card, Chase can expedite it to me mid-travel. I'm not aware of any CUs that do that.

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Fear not, even though I use the UNFCU Azure for the smaller expenses while traveling, my CSR is right next to it in my wallet.  The CSR still gets used for all the airfare and hotel bills, and I know that Chase will take care of me in the event of a lost or compromised card.