Amex everyday preferred and impact on other cards

[red259]

Looking for some advice. I currently have the following cards (at least the ones I think relevant to this consideration) Amex everyday, amex plat, aspire, amex gold. freedom flex, chase ink. In about fourth months I will be applying for a CSR or CSP depending on which as the highest bonus offer at the time. I have an offer to upgrade to Amex everyday preferred for 25k pts once spend is met. Which cards would you keep/get rid of if any due to overlap when factoring in annual spend?

I'm having a tough time deciding with all the changes being made to card products. The amex plat is pretty much my airline lounge card right now since I got rid of the CSR. I'm not able to travel much at the moment due to obvious reasons. I can get lounge access via the aspire card but I will probably downgrade the aspire to the ascend card and maybe downgrade the plat to a gold card or even green card in hopes that maybe I can get an offer to upgrade in the future. 

Right now I use my amex gold card quite a bit on restaurants and grocery spend. However, the freedom flex would give me 3% back on restaurant spend and I would be able to use the amex everyday preffered for the grocery spend. The combination seems to make the gold card less valuable when you add in the AF. Am I wrong here? I do get $120 in credits on the Gold card each year using the monthly dining credit but still the AF will be $250. I am just trying to plot out what I am going to do with my cards for the next year. Will be in the garden for the next four months, so upgrade offers are the only bonuses I will be able to earn and with the lack of travel I am not sure its worth paying AFs on some of the premium cards since I am not able to maximize their benefits. Thoughts? 

[wasCB14]

I've juggled a few grocery cards over the last few years...

Amex Gold (when it was PRG)

Sallie Mae (closed in 2017 due to nerfing)

BCE  (upgraded to BCP, then went back down to BCE)

EDP (down to ED, then re-upgraded back to EDP)

Freedom and Discover (rotating)

My thoughts:

1. You can never go very wrong with a big SUB.

2. 5% with no AF is nice when AF cards get messy.

3. It's nice to ride the upgrades and downgrades on ED/EDP and BCE/BCP.

4. The long-term value of BCP and EDP is pretty limited. With a $6k cap the AFs eat into the rewards and I wasn't a fan of tracking the number of transactions on EDP.

5. Gold is also a bit tricky unless someone has high grocery/dining spend or can use the credits well. While I don't mind the quirks on Platinum, the Gold monthly credits wouldn't work as well. But the card would still be good for a year or two if I can get a big SUB.

I upgraded my BCE to BCP around July 2019 for $250, then downgraded about a month ago (full AF refund less a dollar or two).

I upgraded my ED back to EDP for 25k around June 2020 and will downgrade again around July 2021.

Since I got PRG in May 2014 (and closed it in 2016), there is a chance I will be in a new "lifetime" (seven years later...I know it's YMMV) by summer 2021. So I may get a Gold card then if I'm eligible for a nice SUB.

If the Gold quirks don't really bother you and you expect to use at least some of the airline extras credits, I suggest you just hit your $2k or whatever minimum spend for the EDP upgrade and then move your grocery/dining spend back to Gold. I'm not finding EDP to be worth it long-term. My Costco spend is down and my Instacart spend is up, but I'd need to give EDP some of online shopping spend to reach 30 transactions (or mess around with Amazon GC reloads) while BofA WWFCR could give me 5.25% instead.

Not regretting the re-upgrade, of course, as I got 25k MRs for $2k spend. But all I really use it for is the basic 3x on groceries.

[notmyrealname23]

Did you PC to the Freedom Flex or sign up for it? If you signed up you get a 5%/5x UR spend on groceries for up to 12k (doesn't apply on a product change though). If it was signup then it's "duh" level obvious to put grocery spend for the next 12 months on the Freedom Flex if you're making a strong play in the Chase UR ecosystem. If it was PC, then it's less obvious.

Amex Hilton Surpass comes with 10 Priority Pass passes, Amex Green gives you $100 in Loungebuddy credit, so that's kind of a cobbled together way to do some lounge access if you want to downgrade one of the Platinum/Gold cards in 2021. The thing is though that Green overlaps bonus categories with CSP/CSR, so are you going to be putting enough spend on AMEX to make it worthwhile vs. just cancelling the charge cards for now, doing the EDP upgrade for now, and sliding over to Chase UR?

The thing is that dining on FF is really 3.75x/4.5x cashback thanks to Pay Yourself Back for a while once you get that CSR/CSP... so a $250 annual fee grocery card? Ulp.

[Loquat]

If you're getting 5x on the Flex then I'd say the Amex Gold is redundant. The only reason I'd say go for the EDP is because of the upgrade offer otherwise that really doesn't fit either and unless you're hitting 30 transactions a month then it really isn't all that great compared to your other options.

If you're not traveling all that much I'd ditch the Amex Platinum because $550 is a hefty price to pay for a card you're not using. If your Flex is new and you've got the sub as well as 5x on grocery then I'd say ditch the Amex Gold as well. Even if you take advantage of the $120 in dining credits it still leaves you paying $130 for a card that has a $100 airline credit that Amex hasn't made easier to use...and you mention you aren't traveling anyway.

I would upgrade to the EDP and take the points, use the Flex for grocery and dining, ditch the Amex Platinum and Gold (saving yourself $800 there), and the CSR/CSP only makes sense because I'm guessing you'd be getting the sub.

[notmyrealname23]

---

@Loquat wrote:

I would upgrade to the EDP and take the points, use the Flex for grocery and dining, ditch the Amex Platinum and Gold (saving yourself $800 there), and the CSR/CSP only makes sense because I'm guessing you'd be getting the sub.

---

Assuming that the FF is a new signup, not a PC. Otherwise... I'd probably:

- ditch AMEX Gold/Plat for the CSP/CSR as the primary travel/dining card. Since Green is largely duplicative of CSP/CSR, don't get it and just kill the charge cards unless there's a sweet retention bonus, or you really think you can get value from Loungebuddy/Clear.

- downgrade Hilton Aspire ($450) for Hilton Surpass ($95) since apparently OP values Hilton status/that card, if you end up with the CSP and no PP benefit from that card, you still get 10 PP lounge passes, so that's not NOTHING for lounge access.

- Use AMEX EDP (3x Amex for up to 6k, even if you don't hit 30 transactions in a month) and Hilton Surpass (6x Hilton) for groceries (you'll want to keep AMEX happy and not just sock drawer the Hilton card if you ever want to come back or play upgrade/downgrade games- the popup is a terrible thing).

Assuming you get the CSP, that's $285 in card fees instead of $1250.

I think OP should do math on whether or not paying $285 for this combo is better than paying the extra $455 for CSR. I would argue that paying $455 for, say, 20,000 UR points (and some better UR->cash conversion rates) is a bad deal if you're not really getting anything out of the CSR bennies. You can literally buy United/Avianca/Southwest/Hyatt/IHG points at better rates than that a lot of the time, and if you're not getting benefit from CSRs and you just want cashback I don't think dropping hundreds in annual fees on luxury travel cards is the right play. I would argue there are too many good no annual fee cashback cards out there. Come back to the travel cards when you're actually going to use them.

(This is a case of do what I say, not what I do, because at the moment the SUBs and stars aligned that getting Green/Gold/Aspire actually are paying off WELL for me, even during COVID- but even at that I have been nabbing good cashback cards, and if this nonsense is going on all through 2021, and I have zero international travel come 2022 I'll have some decisions to make.)

BTW, OP: the Hilton no-AF AMEX card is 5x groceries, if you REALLY want to slim down to just $190 in annual fees. No lounge access and it's just Hilton Silver but you might do that if you're getting the full meal deal on lounge access with a CSR.

[red259]

---

@notmyrealname23 wrote:

Did you PC to the Freedom Flex or sign up for it? If you signed up you get a 5%/5x UR spend on groceries for up to 12k (doesn't apply on a product change though). If it was signup then it's "duh" level obvious to put grocery spend for the next 12 months on the Freedom Flex if you're making a strong play in the Chase UR ecosystem. If it was PC, then it's less obvious.

Amex Hilton Surpass comes with 10 Priority Pass passes, Amex Green gives you $100 in Loungebuddy credit, so that's kind of a cobbled together way to do some lounge access if you want to downgrade one of the Platinum/Gold cards in 2021. The thing is though that Green overlaps bonus categories with CSP/CSR, so are you going to be putting enough spend on AMEX to make it worthwhile vs. just cancelling the charge cards for now, doing the EDP upgrade for now, and sliding over to Chase UR?

The thing is that dining on FF is really 3.75x/4.5x cashback thanks to Pay Yourself Back for a while once you get that CSR/CSP... so a $250 annual fee grocery card? Ulp.

---

Its a PC because they changed over my freedom unlimited so I dont have that nice bonus on grocery spend. I'm not into cashback since I use my points on travel and while the dining redemption is a strong option I won't have the CSP or CSR for another four months or so (when bonus clock resets). I think the only option I have with the charge cards the most I can do is close one and downgrade the other to green. I can't close both because I need one open to fish for upgrade offers since I have used up my lifetime bonuses already. EDP would likely only be for one year because I don't like having to count transactions. 

[red259]

---

@notmyrealname23 wrote:

---

@Loquat wrote:

I would upgrade to the EDP and take the points, use the Flex for grocery and dining, ditch the Amex Platinum and Gold (saving yourself $800 there), and the CSR/CSP only makes sense because I'm guessing you'd be getting the sub.

---

Assuming that the FF is a new signup, not a PC. Otherwise... I'd probably:

- ditch AMEX Gold/Plat for the CSP/CSR as the primary travel/dining card. Since Green is largely duplicative of CSP/CSR, don't get it and just kill the charge cards unless there's a sweet retention bonus, or you really think you can get value from Loungebuddy/Clear.

- downgrade Hilton Aspire ($450) for Hilton Surpass ($95) since apparently OP values Hilton status/that card, if you end up with the CSP and no PP benefit from that card, you still get 10 PP lounge passes, so that's not NOTHING for lounge access.

- Use AMEX EDP (3x Amex for up to 6k, even if you don't hit 30 transactions in a month) and Hilton Surpass (6x Hilton) for groceries (you'll want to keep AMEX happy and not just sock drawer the Hilton card if you ever want to come back or play upgrade/downgrade games- the popup is a terrible thing).

Assuming you get the CSP, that's $285 in card fees instead of $1250.

I think OP should do math on whether or not paying $285 for this combo is better than paying the extra $455 for CSR. I would argue that paying $455 for, say, 20,000 UR points (and some better UR->cash conversion rates) is a bad deal if you're not really getting anything out of the CSR bennies. You can literally buy United/Avianca/Southwest/Hyatt/IHG points at better rates than that a lot of the time, and if you're not getting benefit from CSRs and you just want cashback I don't think dropping hundreds in annual fees on luxury travel cards is the right play. I would argue there are too many good no annual fee cashback cards out there. Come back to the travel cards when you're actually going to use them.

(This is a case of do what I say, not what I do, because at the moment the SUBs and stars aligned that getting Green/Gold/Aspire actually are paying off WELL for me, even during COVID- but even at that I have been nabbing good cashback cards, and if this nonsense is going on all through 2021, and I have zero international travel come 2022 I'll have some decisions to make.)

BTW, OP: the Hilton no-AF AMEX card is 5x groceries, if you REALLY want to slim down to just $190 in annual fees. No lounge access and it's just Hilton Silver but you might do that if you're getting the full meal deal on lounge access with a CSR.

---

Thanks for the analysis. I don't like the idea of getting rid of all charge cards, because I want to be able to try to pickup upgrade offers. I figured with the green card I could get clear so at least there would be some temporary value there. Good point about the 10PP passes. 

[notmyrealname23]

---

@red259 wrote:

---

I think the only option I have with the charge cards the most I can do is close one and downgrade the other to green. I can't close both because I need one open to fish for upgrade offers since I have used up my lifetime bonuses already. EDP would likely only be for one year because I don't like having to count transactions. 

---

So the idea is that you're going to basically be buying AMEX points by paying an AF, churn the upgrade to Gold/Plat, dump the upgraded card and back to Green, rinse, lather, repeat? So that's going to be something like a few hundred dollars a year in AFs? Where's your breakeven on this cycle (the size of upgrade offer or retention bonus needed)? (I emphasize "do some math" because a lot of AMEX mile/point currencies can be bought with straight cash at less than 2 cpp, so it would be hard for me to assign more than 2 cents per point to AMEX, so this becomes very much a math game)...

Thing is though you're going to have to put $$$ on whatever you keep open to get them to bite. That's going to hurt spend on other cards... but OK, an AMEX Green I guess? You're still only at $435 in AFs if you add a Green and cump Gold/Platinum. You've still cut a lot of the fat out. That being said, Hilton Surpass is 6x Hilton on dining...

[wasCB14]

I'm not sure of your home or destination airports, but a lot of lounges have shut down temporarily. Just something to keep in mind. I'm not sure when those passes expire.

I haven't flown for a few months. Are TSA staffing levls still pretty high or are some airports working with a reduced staff? If passenger numbers are down a lot that may mean that lines aren't too bad...and reduce the practical value of CLEAR.

[notmyrealname23]

---

@wasCB14 wrote:

I'm not sure of your home or destination airports, but a lot of lounges have shut down temporarily. Just something to keep in mind. I'm not sure when those passes expire.

I haven't flown for a few months. Are TSA staffing levls still pretty high or are some airports working with a reduced staff? If passenger numbers are down a lot that may mean that lines aren't too bad...and reduce the practical value of CLEAR.

---

PP lounges are opening; you get 10 passes a year.

I found CLEAR worked out well jn Vegas because Precheck was closed but CLEAR was open; got PreCheck Lite. It's also open in the airports I use the most (SEA, LAS, PHX, SJC). You are still at the head of the line.