Amex getting tougher on SUBS

[sarge12]

With credit card holders becoming more savvy at maximizing rewards and SUB's, we can expect changes to happen. My Chase Amazon Prime Visa is only used for amazon purchases...5%. My Discover card is only used for 5% rotating catagories. My AMEX BCE is my grocery store card. I PIF every month except the  3300 dollars on my new Bank of America 0 BT fee 0% interest for 18 months that was the remainder of my Goldwing loan. Bottom line...no how, no way, are credit card issuers making a profit from just the swipe fees on my cards...no way!!! The credit card issuers have been losing money on my cards since 2010 at least. It's the revolvers the cc issuers make their money from...strict transactors who maximize the rewards and SUB's are playing these bankers. Fortunately we are still in the minority...but is gradually increasing, which will result in changes eventually.

[NRB525]

Well said. These are bonuses, a gift from the banks. They are not an entitlement, and can be reduced or stopped when the banks decide it is no longer profitable.

Citi pretty much did away with TY bonuses.
Chase has reduced the CSR/CSP bonus possibilities.
AMEX is trying to keep these for what they were intended.

[redpat]

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@MrDisco99 wrote:

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@redpat wrote: 

If I started closing my amex cards and get non-lifetime offers and began to reload I should know better.  

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Why? Are we to assume they don't actually want us to take the offers they send us?

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Before no, but now maybe.  It looks like it’s become a roll of the dice if you have many closed cards.  We should find out sooner than later though.

[Anonymous]

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@redpat wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@MrDisco99 wrote:
So how am I supposed to know if I’m eligible for a bonus or not? I’m supposed to just app and hope for the best and just assume it’s my fault if they decide not to award me?

Oh well... it was fun while it lasted.

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Right, and that's exactly the problem. 

I hope they get sued when people don't get their sign up bonuses. 

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I wouldn't hold my breath, it just won't happen.  They know more than you think, they are tired of all the BS of churning and gaming points.  Most won't even care about this, I know I don't. 

If I started closing my amex cards and get non-lifetime offers and began to reload I should know better.  

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The courts would read the language and most likely not agree with AMEX because the terms are too broad and favor them too much while putting the customer at a disadvantage. If you advertise a bonus with particular spend and then say "we'll only pay it if we want to" ( that's basically what they're saying), I doubt the courts will favor AMEX's side. You may think AMEX knows what they're doing, but they've been on the losing side of some court cases. 

If I were a judge, I would force AMEX to re-word their bonus terms to clarify who is and isn't eligible for a sign up bonus. The term "up to our discretion" is unacceptable, and may result in inconsistent enforcement. Consumers need better protection against verbage like this. 

[Anonymous]

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@NRB525 wrote:
Well said. These are bonuses, a gift from the banks. They are not an entitlement, and can be reduced or stopped when the banks decide it is no longer profitable.

Citi pretty much did away with TY bonuses.
Chase has reduced the CSR/CSP bonus possibilities.
AMEX is trying to keep these for what they were intended.

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Sure, they can be stopped... But don't advertise a bonus then. 

In this case AMEX is advertising a bonus, and then deciding later if you get it or not. 

[QuakerOatmeal]

I signed up for the Vanilla Hilton card 2 months ago on a whim, but *now* I'm showing a preapproved for the Aspire Hilton Card, that I would LOVE for the Diamond status, and that SUB of course. I would've signed up for that one straight away had I know I could get it instead...

Does this basically mean that if I apply for that Aspire Hilton Card they can deny a SUB? 

I honestly wouldn't care much, yes those 100k points would be nice in addition to the 50k points I got from the baby Hilton, but what I really actually want is that Diamond status...

Was thinking about applying for it, then closing my baby hilton after 13 months.

[Anonymous]

Maybe they are trying to stop the incognito offers people receive.   Simpler solution is when people sign in it should tell them they are not eligible.  

[Anonymous]

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@Gollum wrote:

*shrug*

I just got charged my first annual fee ($95) for my Blue Cash Preferred.  I'll probably switch back to the Blue Cash Everyday eventually, but since they gave me a $250 sign-up bonus (SUB) for the BCP, I figure it's fair to keep/use the BCP until after I've been charged for two annual fees.

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You could always call up and try to get them to waive the fee.  

[Anonymous]

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@JustcallmeTM wrote:

I'm not worrried. The language is pretty simple to my understanding. They just eyeballing the things that have been explained in detail on the work around on applying, upgrading downgrading and etc... The same rules that people explain on here or on site in pure detail is what they are going to attack its that simple. 

This is what they are eyeing:

Open lowest card(ED,BCE,Delta, Hilton,etc..) for SUB and proceed to upgrade for SUB again. Close card. 

Since everyone knows you can double dip in this regard with annual fee cards.

Open next highest level card for SUB and then proceed to downgrade or close card. 

Find apps with no language for SUB and then proceed to downgrade or close. 

7/10 times its always within 12-13 months of having the card open to either avoid the charge altogether or to get a refund of the fee, it's like clockwork not just here but all these sites to find info. 

Let's keep it real, I read alot of posts, sounds like most on here who are frequent or these sites like DofC and find the same talk on there down even on the bottom from people who reply. 

If one opened a card like BCP/EDP or any of the top cards for the SUB and just for the SUB and have no plan to use it and toss it in the SD or downgrade, then yeah these are the ones they eyeballing. Same if they see you have opened all of there cards at one points milked all the SUBS and somehow your still getting them just to never keep the card or keep downgrading or closing then yeah I would keep tabs on you also. Most on here and alot of other sites just want the SUB but are die hard Chase lovers so they dont put spend on those cards after SUB has been milked.

Fair game from how I see it. People should know if they should mess with Amex again or not. If you had the SUB before and going to apply again because there was no language then your putting yourself out there. Same with those who upgrade just to downgrade within 12-13 months, that is a dead giveaway.

So the language to me isn't hard to accept, it's that there are those already trying to find a work around on the language to continue milking the cow that doesnt want to be milked. 

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If there is no benefit to me I wouldn't care about Amex. I don't need their cards.  The sign up bonus is the only benefit I see. 

[K-in-Boston]

@QuakerOatmeal you should be fine applying for the card you really want.  If your strategy is going to be Honors points, it may even be worth holding on to your no-AF card for the 5X on gas and supermarket purchases that would be 3X on the Aspire.

While yes, the wording is far too vague and they should spell out exactly who is and who isn't eligible, in practice this will likely only be used to weed out those who are truly just repeatedly churning Amex cards for the signup bonuses and perks.  It's doubtful that the overwhelming majority of people will be affected by this; those who are very likely to be affected know who they are.