@Anonymous wrote:
@Crowhelm wrote:
If you want to go along with whatever they feel like doing, that is your business. I have higher standards than that. Obviously, they expect me to have high standards, pay as agreed, be responsible with the credit card and give them lots of swipes so they can make money. So in return, I expect not to have to worry about if my limit will be the same tomorrow as it is today especially when I hold up my end of the bargain.
I find it almost amusing how you see closing the account as a negative. I mean yes in a way it is negative because I signed up with a lousy lender I thought was a good lender and now I need to find a better one but as with everything in life if I don't get the service I expect to get I take my business elsewhere. Wouldn't you do that with everything else? So why not with a credit card issuer?
I find the posturing tone quite amusing! Yes, you show those disrepectful credit card companies who is boss by closing the card, which REALLY impacts their entire business. Of course it's fine to close the card whenever you want, it's just doing it because of CLD doesn't make immediate sense, as closing is the ultimate CLD. Yes, the annoyance makes you want to sever the business relationship, but don't mistake it for anything particularly noble or high standards. It could be taken for an ill-thought out, cutting-off-nose-to-spite-face move. Or not.
Well, we just need to agree to disagree. You didn't really answer my question about why a credit card issuer is any different but that is ok. I never said it was noble to close it or even that it has any effect, as far as, that will show them who is boss or any of that kind of childish behavior. When I say higher standard it is my standard that if I am expected to trust somebody or trust a company that trust goes both ways. So obviously if I did nothing wrong and my credit card issuer tells me we lost trust in you by seriously lowering my credit limit that makes a continued relationship impossible. I sure hope you don't value a card or credit limit that much. But if you do you still need to respect that others think differently about that. The OP is very unhappy about what Amex did. In his opinion, it is bad faith business and his warning is really just meant for people who feel the same way. If you are willing to do whatever to keep things going that is your opinion and of course your choice. But as they say and I do hate this saying, there are many ways to skin a cat. His way might not be your way but I get what he is saying here and would do the same.
@sarge12 wrote:
@Crowhelm wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Remedios wrote:
I get the part where you're angry, but you don't need to go down "you don't know what you're talking about" route with those who are responding to you.
If you've envisioned your post as "I vent, everyone agrees with me", you're in for a disappointment.
Some might if they had similar experiences. Others might try to explain what went wrong on your end, and some might grab popcorn.
In any case, it's an interactive process, and as such, it's primarily driven by your responses.
This. Also, as has been said, it could be any lender (and, IME, Amex is far from the biggest culprit), so, to paraphrase, "stay away from Amex, they a bunch of foolish crooks" is a little misplaced, as someone going to another lender instead could well run into the same issue. You are angry at the first unjustified (to your mind) CLD so, for you, Amex sucks. Doesn't make it a general truth, which is they all suck. Except when they give us nice SUBs, rewards, CLIs whatever. But they are all in it for the money, totally unlike me.
I totally agree with the OP here. As long as I pay as agreed, and guess what, paying the minimum is paying as agreed, and there is not a serious uptick in my overall balance(s) (including other cards) I don't understand and will not accept any kind of credit limit decrease. If you do you are history, simple as that. Amex did the same to me 20 plus years ago and it was not based on slow payment or no payment, they just didn't like that I loaded up the card then paid in full. How often do they cite that people are not using their existing limits enough for an increase but if you do that is no good either? Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. I expect stable and secure lenders. If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen or maybe don't lend to people with scores below 700. It is annoying how many people make excuses for Amex or any bank that does stuff like that here. Also, the timing is ridiculous. Just after Christmas, people quite often have higher balances in January, February. This is hardly unexpected or unusual.
Except the original post was August 01. I often do not notice that myself, but it is relevent to your post the fact that AMEX did not do that right after the holidays.
You are right, I did not realize that. I guess he wasn't that upset if he still didn't close the card.
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Crowhelm wrote:
If you want to go along with whatever they feel like doing, that is your business. I have higher standards than that. Obviously, they expect me to have high standards, pay as agreed, be responsible with the credit card and give them lots of swipes so they can make money. So in return, I expect not to have to worry about if my limit will be the same tomorrow as it is today especially when I hold up my end of the bargain.
I find it almost amusing how you see closing the account as a negative. I mean yes in a way it is negative because I signed up with a lousy lender I thought was a good lender and now I need to find a better one but as with everything in life if I don't get the service I expect to get I take my business elsewhere. Wouldn't you do that with everything else? So why not with a credit card issuer?
I find the posturing tone quite amusing! Yes, you show those disrepectful credit card companies who is boss by closing the card, which REALLY impacts their entire business. Of course it's fine to close the card whenever you want, it's just doing it because of CLD doesn't make immediate sense, as closing is the ultimate CLD. Yes, the annoyance makes you want to sever the business relationship, but don't mistake it for anything particularly noble or high standards. It could be taken for an ill-thought out, cutting-off-nose-to-spite-face move. Or not.
Seriously! Amex is a "lousy lender" because they lower someone's limit?
Why is it so hard to understand that people evaluate something based on their experience and not as a whole? I mean I am sure overall Amex has more happy than unhappy customer but in the OP's eyes what Amex did makes them a lousy lender.
People kill me sometimes with this stuff. "Fine. It's their loss. I won't give them my business again!" Well, if your business was so valuable to them, they wouldn't risk losing it. It's YOUR loss and you know it, but bluster away in order to soothe your wounded ego.
And with that response you actually made the OP's point. Lowering the limit was saying loud and clear we don't care for your business, at least not anymore. I don't know about you but I don't do business with anybody who basicly tells me I am not trustworthy.
You need them more than they need you, and they'll be just fine without you.
I sincerely hope nobody NEEDS a credit card since I certainly don't but they certainly need us, afterall that is their business.
@dragontears wrote:
@K-in-Boston wrote:
@sarge12 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:It sounds like they are balance chasing. I would pay it off and close the account. Let it show as closed by customer on your credit report. If you do not do this it will wreck your utilization score no matter how small the amount .
Synchrony did this to me back in 10/2020 when they closed all 7 of my accounts. One account I owed some money on so I paid it off not to have a utilization issue.
Thanks
Mark
I have seen this posted many times, but to date, I have never seen anyone with any data to indicate that showing as closed by consumer vs closed by issuer, has any affect on scores. I think as far as lenders are concerned...closed is closed...unless it shows a balance. I actually have closed cards, and have had them closed by the issuer due to nonuse. I can tell no difference in my scores either way. Due to that, I often just wait till the issuer closes dormant cards. Now if the OP is being balance chased, the high utilization on one card will affect his scores.
That is correct. Statements such as "account closed by lender" are not used in scoring calculations for ANY credit scoring algorithm (at least any that has ever been in wide use such as those from FICO and Vantage). Where that CAN become a possible issue is in manual underwriting. Imagine you are a mortgage underwriter and you are looking at a credit report that is otherwise clean but had 6 accounts closed by lender in a short span a few months back. That might raise a red flag that perhaps you were having financial difficulties and your accounts were closed, but they were not so late that you were reported as 30+ late on them.
And that remark certainly does not factor into how revolving utilization is calculated for closed accounts with balances. The only things that matter there are the current reported balance and the current reported limit. The overwhelming majority of lenders continue to report the credit limit at the time of account closure; in those cases, the cards are calculated the same as if they are still open until they reach a $0 balance. There are only scoring penalties at risk if the limit is reported the same as the balance or $0.
Do you know someone that was questioned by an underwriter about "closed by credit grantor" comment? Or is this purely a hypothetical situation that you think might happen? I have never heard of a mortgage being denied for this reason (terms for mortgages are not set by underwriters, underwriters job is to make sure that the loan fits the legal and lender specific criteria).
Note the capitalized "CAN become" caveat. The point being, algorithms have no way to sort the various methods of indicating who initiated a card closure, so algorithms just see a closed card. Manual underwriting has the ability to draw other connections in the data.
I do agree with your point that it is unlikely the closed cards would be a factor even for a manual review. In the scenario of several closed cards in a very short period of time, I'm struggling to imagine why multiple lenders would do that unless the cardholder was in a financial situation that also affected scores. Actual 30 and 60 day lates comes to mind. High utilization on significant card balances is another. Not getting past the lates. The high utilization is typically due to... not being able to pay the balances fast, so that often persists as a score drag.
Purely a hypothetical. Chase credit analyst would have probably been a better possible time that could possibly be questioned. Anyone who has ever had a difficult recon with them knows they question anything and everything while going line by line through your reports. I have never had a number of cards closed by lender in a short time. The point of my post was that closed by lender vs closed by consumer really does not matter, and absolutely has no bearing at all on scoring. The post was a reply to a chain stating that a closed by lender remark would ruin a score. The hypothetical closing en masse by lenders and a manual underwriting process was just the only possible scenario, however unlikely, where that could possibly ever matter.
