Citibank DC vs. Paypal MC?

[Anonymous]

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@Aim_High wrote:

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@kdm31091 wrote:   " .... All of the 2 percent cards have catches and quirks."

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Give me an account that has ALL of these features.  There are none that I have found.

 - NO minimum redemptions (which sets you up to lose a % of your savings). 

        *$50 (5000 pts) Fidelity; $25 DC; Alliant $20; SDFCU+PenFed are lowest at $5 minimum IIRC

        *Nobody redeems starting at a penny (Like cards from Capital One, Bank of America, Discover, etc.)

 Paypal has no min redemption, you can redeem a penny

 - NO loss of 1% when you pay with your points instead of cash-out (DC)

It's more 0.02%, not really an issue (and you can avoid it easily)

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And the other thing to consider is that the 2% cards earn 33% more than a 1.5% card, so assuming that there is a 1.5% card that meets AIM_High's definition of ideal, are the quirks of the 2% ones so bad that it is worth giving up the extra earn?  

[creditfan]

another 2% card

rbfcu

[Aim_High]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Paypal has no min redemption, you can redeem a penny

 - NO loss of 1% when you pay with your points instead of cash-out (DC)

It's more 0.02%, not really an issue (and you can avoid it easily)

And the other thing to consider is that the 2% cards earn 33% more than a 1.5% card, so assuming that there is a 1.5% card that meets AIM_High's definition of ideal, are the quirks of the 2% ones so bad that it is worth giving up the extra earn? 

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Thanks the clarification @longtimelurker. I was shooting from the hip comparing and contrasting and missed that PayPal does indeed redeem a penny. 

I agree that the .002% on Citi is a trivial point - except that they are purposefully counting on the average person to not think about giving up that percentage and not having to pay the full 2% when redeemed for statement credit.  It's purposefully misleading, which makes me not want to trust Citi in general.  And that is just one of the many loopholes they have in their legalese.  Plus, if it's "easily avoided", it means it is something I must be mindful of and aware of how I am redeeming my cash-back or else I don't get full value. Why do they have to make it difficult?  Because they want to brag they pay 2% but they don't always really pay 2% when it comes down to it, unless you are the rare customer who follows all the rules.

However, those are minutia compared to my overall point which was that nobody, including PayPal MC or Citi DC, offers ALL of those features while many other lower-paying cash back cards do.  So why is that the case?  None of the 2% cards are as easy or hassle-free as some of the lower-paying cards because the lenders have complicated the rules to increase their odds of not having to actually pay the full 2%.  It's all a big game.

Is it worth giving up the extra earn?  Probably not, for someone who is willing to follow the rules or extra complications I mentioned above.  

But the bigger question is whether we are actually getting the full 2% when the dust clears?  I just think it is important that everyone knows what they are getting into and understands that they may not get the advertised rate on a 2% card if they get tripped up by the terms and conditions.  For all their effort, they could end up getting closer to the 1.5% (or less) than they could get with a basic cash-back card like Quicksilver or Freedom Unlimited. 

Of course, none of this even counts the masses who apply for cash-back cards and then don't pay off balances in full every month.  Interest rates are higher on these cards which quickly eats up the savings for those who even occassionally float a balance.  They aren't for everybody but unfortunately some people don't do their homework and don't understand what they are getting into. 

[Aim_High]

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@creditfan wrote:

another 2% card

rbfcu

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Yes, and it's one I don't see mentioned much.

Like several of the others, you must be a member and have accounts with them. 

They are probably best for someone who is willing to do their banking there. 

Do you have this card?  I would be interested in comments since I rarely hear about it.

*Randolph-Brooks Federal Credit Union

[Andypanda]

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@Aim_High wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Paypal has no min redemption, you can redeem a penny

 - NO loss of 1% when you pay with your points instead of cash-out (DC)

It's more 0.02%, not really an issue (and you can avoid it easily)

And the other thing to consider is that the 2% cards earn 33% more than a 1.5% card, so assuming that there is a 1.5% card that meets AIM_High's definition of ideal, are the quirks of the 2% ones so bad that it is worth giving up the extra earn? 

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Thanks the clarification @longtimelurker. I was shooting from the hip comparing and contrasting and missed that PayPal does indeed redeem a penny. 

I agree that the .002% on Citi is a trivial point - except that they are purposefully counting on the average person to not think about giving up that percentage and not having to pay the full 2% when redeemed for statement credit.  It's purposefully misleading, which makes me not want to trust Citi in general.  And that is just one of the many loopholes they have in their legalese.  Plus, if it's "easily avoided", it means it is something I must be mindful of and aware of how I am redeeming my cash-back or else I don't get full value. Why do they have to make it difficult?  Because they want to brag they pay 2% but they don't always really pay 2% when it comes down to it, unless you are the rare customer who follows all the rules.

However, those are minutia compared to my overall point which was that nobody, including PayPal MC or Citi DC, offers ALL of those features while many other lower-paying cash back cards do.  So why is that the case?  None of the 2% cards are as easy or hassle-free as some of the lower-paying cards because the lenders have complicated the rules to increase their odds of not having to actually pay the full 2%.  It's all a big game.

Is it worth giving up the extra earn?  Probably not, for someone who is willing to follow the rules or extra complications I mentioned above.  

But the bigger question is whether we are actually getting the full 2% when the dust clears?  I just think it is important that everyone knows what they are getting into and understands that they may not get the advertised rate on a 2% card if they get tripped up by the terms and conditions.  For all their effort, they could end up getting closer to the 1.5% (or less) than they could get with a basic cash-back card like Quicksilver or Freedom Unlimited. 

Of course, none of this even counts the masses who apply for cash-back cards and then don't pay off balances in full every month.  Interest rates are higher on these cards which quickly eats up the savings for those who even occassionally float a balance.  They aren't for everybody but unfortunately some people don't do their homework and don't understand what they are getting into. 

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Even if one gets 1.98% back instead Of the full 2% back it is still .48% more than a 1.5% card

[Aim_High]

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@Andypanda wrote:  "Even if one gets 1.98% back instead Of the full 2% back it is still .48% more than a 1.5% card"

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Yes it is and I never said that it wasn't.

I already said, "Is it worth giving up the extra earn?  Probably not ... but the bigger question is whether we are actually getting the full 2% when the dust clears?"  (There are other "opportunities" with Citi to lose more than .002% if you don't follow their other rules; for only one example, if you SD it for 12 months due to putting spend on other cards for cash-back or SUBS, you just lost whatever CB you had accrued.)

But I also said that "... my overall point which was that nobody ... offers ALL of those features while many other lower-paying cash back cards do."  That was my criticism, of the 2% cards as a whole compared to lower-paying cash-back cards.  Focusing on that .002% was not the point of the entire posting, only a minor part of it.

I will probably still eventually apply for at least one of them myself, but I have other priorities for the moment.  But it would be nice to find one that is as game-free and uncomplicated as the 1.0% to 1.5% cash-back cards.

[creditfan]

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@Aim_High wrote:

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@creditfan wrote:

another 2% card

rbfcu

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Yes, and it's one I don't see mentioned much.

Like several of the others, you must be a member and have accounts with them. 

They are probably best for someone who is willing to do their banking there. 

Do you have this card?  I would be interested in comments since I rarely hear about it.

*Randolph-Brooks Federal Credit Union

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SDFCU & RBFCU

both cards will be on top list since both are chip+pin priority

[Anonymous]

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@Aim_High wrote:

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But I also said that "... my overall point which was that nobody ... offers ALL of those features while many other lower-paying cash back cards do."  That was my criticism, of the 2% cards as a whole compared to lower-paying cash-back cards.  Focusing on that .002% was not the point of the entire posting, only a minor part of it.

.

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Which card(s) are you referring to here?   I think the point is that ALL cards. not just the 2% ones, have some drawbacks,  and each person decides how deal-breaker those drawbacks are.   My guess, for example, is that not too many people here are concerned with getting paper statements, but as you are, having to pay extra for them drops the card from consideration.   But others would (presumably!) have other concerns with your fave 1 or 1.5% card!  So I think the Cap One QS meets most/all of your list, but for many the 3HP will also rule it out.

And it takes a lot for me to give up the extra rewards!

[Andypanda]

Between healty/auto/home insurance, plus cable bill, the extra hala precent comes out to about$50 a year. These items that wouldn’t be covered by extendend warrenty or price protection coverege,  so getting a 2% back card would be worth it. For benufits lije rental car insurance. Lost luggage, i would put it in my wf, propel which gets 3% back. Electronics i usually get at costco, which has great warrenty policy, es7if one has the costco visa. I believe the best practice is to slowley get  a full portfolio of cards to cover as many situations as possible.

[Anonymous]

OP - I don't have a Citi DC but I use PayPal MC for all general spend. I've gotten 3 offers in the last 9 months or so from them which included getting a statement credit of $10 and $20 for a certain amount of spend like ($200 and $300 + the 2% CB) and right now I have 0% APR on all purchases until 1/1/20. No real downside of this card for me personally and I like the easy cash back redemption (no minimum redemption).