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I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer

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Anonymous
Not applicable

I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer

TL;DR: I have two cards I primarily use - Disco Cash Back, and CSP. I've been letting my Disco statement post a low balance, then BT my CSP balance over to Disco on special terms from them so my CSP posts a low balance - then paying off the transferred amount to Disco before the next statement - is this a bad idea?

 

Still getting used to all of the intricacies of working within the credit realm. Have been working on boosting my credit as quickly and efficiently as I can, while still using cards for daily life - demonstrating use, while not wanting to come off as "credit seeking" so far as new applications, or come off as a risky user for any certain actions.

 

To start: Have raised my FICO 8 from 591 to 720 within a 4 month span of time. Paid off card balances, took out a personal loan to pay down a card (diversifying my types of credit, and reducing utilization on the card to 0%), acquired new credit in the form of CSP and Cap1 VentureOne. All of this means, ultimately, 3 new lines of credit within the last 4 months - 2 revolving, and 1 installment.

 

First I want to start off - If this is breaking any rules, or seen as against the TOS of the forums, I apologize ahead of time - not my intention, and will delete. But:

 

With Discover, I've had a BT offer for the last 2 months that I've used twice. Namely - I would charge most of my charges on my CSP, let my low balance on my Discover card post a statement, then transfer nearly all/most of the debt acquired from CSP to Discover after acquiring a Disco CLI (I've received 3 CLIs from Discover over the last 2 months amounting to ~$4700 CLI up to $7600). I do this because my BT offers from Disco are something like: 0% APR for 12 months with a 3% transfer fee, or 6% APR for 18 months with a $0 transfer fee. So, I've been transferring over my CSP balance to Disco utilizing the 6%/$0 transfer fee, letting my CSP then post a low statement (with my Disco card previously posting a low statement - despite my then, afterwards, transferring over a significant dollar amount from CSP) showing in my credit report, two low statements from each - and thereby keeping my credit report UTL low and scores higher.

 

After CSP posts a low statement, I then go back to charging on the CSP as my daily driver, and pay off the entirety of my Disco card (which reports first) - therefore not paying the $0 transfer fee, nor worrying about the 6% APR - before the next Disco statement posts. Doing so keeps my reported UTL low, even though I'm technically in some ways carrying a balance, with a small fee tacked on.

 

My main goal here has been to raise my score, keep it consistently raised, and now garden.  I've been making larger purchases on my CSP recently as I'm buying inventory for a quick e-commerce business I had started recently and want to both accumulate Sapphire Reward points and demonstrate high use to potentially prompt an auto-CLI, but A) Don't yet want any additional inquiries as would be required to get a business CC due to recent accounts opened, and b) have been transferring over the CSP balance to my Disco card after paying it almost entirely off (leaving a small number above $0 shown - keeping total UTL below 10%) after it posts a statement. Additionally - I know, supposed to keep business and personal expenses separate, but I'll ensure to have my accountant work out the 3-5 transactions that have occurred to ensure I stay in compliance so far as LLC/not mixing personal/reducing likelihood of piercing the corporate veil were I to ever find myself in such an unfortunate position down the line

 

Today, however, I was reading about a certain type of account activity that can get your accounts closed as they're concerned you're establishing a good credit/foundational base -- only to acquire more cards, run up all your accounts all at once, and disappear. This is absolutely not my plan or intention, but I went down the checklist and saw that it could potentially be seen as such. No car payment, no mortgage. Number of newly opened accounts. Can't remember the name of the specific scenario this could be flagged for, but it typically resulted in having accounts/cards closed.

 

My question is: I now have 4/6months EX, 1/6 TU, 1/6 EQ inquiries. I've put a significant amount of money through the cards, but have PIF (so far as utilizing the grace period after statements post) and brought my credit UTL down close to 0%, from ~90% where it sat back in March. ~$27k total personal limit, ~$45k limit when including AU accounts. On my reports, it shows close to 0% UTL - through essentially playing with this balance transfer-after-Disco-post strategy - when in actuality, I have probably about ~$4k that is transferred over to Disco each month the last 2 months. I've used this BT strategy with Disco twice, the last two months, and was considering using it again for what would be the last time - this month. After that the business will be solvent as I have inventory, and extremely high demand already waiting for the product - just waiting for final packaging. I would then no longer be engaging in that strategy, as I'd no longer need to in order to demonstrate low UTL in CR as I would just be paying everything off, rather than using the BT strategy.

 

Now - I wanted to ask. I know there are a lot of very conservative/risk averse members here with far more knowledge and experience than I do, and I know there are more moderate/credit seeking members here that are a bit more aggressive when it comes to app sprees, etc.

 

Does this seem like a way to get myself flagged; and more importantly, past being flagged, does this seem like activity that may get an account shut down?

 

So far as Chase is concerned, they see me charging balances to the card - and "paying it off" by transfering to Disco; and so far as Disco is concerned, they see me accepting BT from my CSP, but then paying all of that off before the statement hits. But, all of it is done in a manner where it appears on my CR that I don't have much of a revolving balance - despite there being ~$4k transferred to Disco that just doesn't show. Have been balancing all of this based on statement post dates, an excel sheet I keep, and paycheck dates.

 

I'm currently AZEO before my Disco statement posts tomorrow (total UTL currently shown as 0.35%, but Disco will post a 7% UTL tomorrow) which when incorporating AZEO, jumped my scores significantly. I would really like to ensure I keep my scores rising, and don't want to post what would end up appearing as a 21% UTL only factoring in personal cards, and a ~13% UTL when including AU. I'm letting this month post statements across 3/5 cards at around 4-6% UTL, if I use this strategy - and PIF before the end of the grace periods on each, ultimately carrying no balance so far as interest accumulation.

 

But all-in-all - thoughts? Is this incredibly dumb? Is it smart? Will this look poorly to both Chase and Disco, who will have then both seen 3 large-ish BT posts 3 months in a row after Disco statement post? Especially when factoring in 4 EX inqs, 2 new revolving accounts and 1 new installment account, over the last four months? (Then factoring in COVID and the apprehension credit issuers have?) Humbly asking opinions here. Again - reiterating $150k base salary, which justifies the charges going through. Just trying to get limits raised to ensure that, if/when I do need to let a balance revolve for a month or two, I can still do my best to at least stay under 15% UTL reported down the line. But, just trying to do what I can to keep my score rising - and not fall below 700.

 

Other than that, no derogs at all other than 2 30days late that posted 48+ months (4 years) ago.

Message 1 of 12
11 REPLIES 11
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer

Too much to read the whole thing right now but:

 

You can try calculating how much actual APR you are paying on this by doing the math. If you're doing any flat BT xfer fees, that's a lot, especially if you pay it off quick.

 

There's no point in BT unless its 0% and $0 fee, if you have the ability to PIF

 

Paying interest on CCs does not build credit or produce a higher score. Look up AZEO for how to report balances for the highest score.

 

I don't think you are seeking credit as heavy as some others, nor is it a big deal. As long as you pay off in timely manner, I wouldn't worry.

Message 2 of 12
Credit12Fico
Established Contributor

Re: I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer

Why do you need a high credit score right now?  Are you looking to get another card? Another CLI? A mortgage?

 

If you don't have a need for a high credit score right now, just leave it alone, no more gimmick transfers. Utilization has no memory in the Fico scoring system. Right now your just paying 3%, 6% fee  (corrected) or whatever it is every single month just adding to the debt to keep your scores high but its not clear to me why you need a high score right now unless you are applying for a new credit line somewhere.   You only need a high credit score in the month before your new credit application. And assuming you just pay off the balances before you need a new credit application, the effect of utilization will go completely away the same amount whether you do it now, or right before you apply for new credit.

Message 3 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer


@Anonymous wrote:

Too much to read the whole thing right now but:

 

You can try calculating how much actual APR you are paying on this by doing the math. If you're doing any flat BT xfer fees, that's a lot, especially if you pay it off quick.

 

There's no point in BT unless its 0% and $0 fee, if you have the ability to PIF

 

Paying interest on CCs does not build credit or produce a higher score. Look up AZEO for how to report balances for the highest score.

 

I don't think you are seeking credit as heavy as some others, nor is it a big deal. As long as you pay off in timely manner, I wouldn't worry.


 

So - The APR is non-existent, as I PIF, and BT fee is $0 for the BT strategy I'm using with Discover. $0 balance transfer fee. 6% APR for 18 months, if I were to hold onto the charges - but I PIF before the next statement. Reason I do this is because I'm on a bit of a thin financial scenario otherwise so far as savings, and spent the majority of my salary I've earned over the last couple months A) Rebuilding my business I've had on hold for the last 2 years, but was otherwise growing at a rate of 15-25% month over month 6 months in a row while advertising, and B) Starting this second brand - for a different variety of product that has exploded in popularity over the last 8 weeks. Have logo designed and set up for E-commerce, website almost fully designed, packaging will be designed within the next 3 days, and I'm well-known within my industry and already have multiple sales outlets for it. 

 

With the current strategy I've outlined, I'm not paying interest - beyond what appears to be a ~$20 charge for the first month after the BT to Disco (which is much less than 3% of $4k, which would end up as a $120 fee).

 

I'm currently AZEO, on my current report. 0.35% (not 35% - 0.35%) UTL, on one card - $85/$11,600 UTL.

Message 4 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer


@Credit12Fico wrote:

Why do you need a high credit score right now?  Are you looking to get another card? Another CLI? A mortgage?

 

If you don't have a need for a high credit score right now, just leave it alone, no more gimmick transfers. Utilization has no memory in the Fico scoring system. Right now your just paying 3%, 6% fee or whatever it is every single month just adding to the debt to keep your scores high but its not clear to me why you need a high score right now unless you are applying for a new credit line somewhere.   You only need a high credit score in the month before your new credit application. And assuming you just pay off the balances before you need a new credit application, the effect of utilization will go completely away the same amount whether you do it now, or right before you apply for new credit.


Want to retain a high credit score as I'm entertaining the thought of getting an AMEX personal/business card, to begin my relationship with AMEX. Additionally, looking at an auto loan - dependent on how well the business does over the next 6 weeks.

 

But - to clarify - I'm not paying 6% APR, and a $0 transfer fee, as I pay off the entire transferred balance before the next statement posts.  Working 100+ hours/week, in an emerging industry where every day counts. So, waiting a month is a signficant amount of time if I were to not show a low balance, but decided I needed to take out a loan to expand. I'm living/working in a pretty non-traditional set of scenarios.

 

Let's scrap the "shouldn't pay interest" section. That's not what I'm concerned about right now, my concern lies in whether my actions would appear to be in-line with what would look like a "bust-out" scheme - as I just don't want my cards closed while I work on moving this forward.

 

To be clear - My DTI is ~6%. I don't spend anything I make on anything other than rent, cheap groceries, gas. No car payment. I spend every dollar I make not on any of my own comforts, but solely and exclusively in expanding my business, surviving off the bare necessities.

Message 5 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer

If you get a Amex charge card, that could be used for pretty much all purchases, it does have a flexible/no limit after all -- it doesn't affect utilization % scoring either, regardless of personal/business versions

 

I think you'd probably be best with business cards, hidden tradelines that don't affect your utilization -- Amex, the charge cards especially, being easier to get than others

Message 6 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer


@Anonymous wrote:

If you get a Amex charge card, that could be used for pretty much all purchases, it does have a flexible/no limit after all -- it doesn't affect utilization % scoring either, regardless of personal/business versions

 

I think you'd probably be best with business cards, hidden tradelines that don't affect your utilization -- Amex, the charge cards especially, being easier to get than others


Yeah - It does seem like going with an AMEX business card would be my best route

Message 7 of 12
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer

I did read the first paragraph. 

Constantly transferring amounts to Discover and paying them off in the first month is a bad idea. I tried this a few times with Discover a few years ago, and for the first and almost only time, my regular Discover BT offers disappeared for a while. After they came back I resolved never to play games with them. 

There is a small cost for Discover to do these BT. If you are paying the Chase card in full anyhow, it is an unnecessary set of steps. 

I use Discover BT offers a lot, I've got about 5 of them currently, some with the no-fee, one with the 3%, but one $333 autopay amount so they constantly work downwardly. All end up paying off prior to their promo end date.  

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 8 of 12
AverageJoesCredit
Legendary Contributor

Re: I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer

I think you are doing the bt thing way too much and with no real need or reason to do so. Eventually Disco will  cut those off as you seem to take one  then pay it off right away then do it right again. Maybe im reading wrong but why not save those excellent bt offers for when truely needed. Want to keep low uti? Just pif your cards and its ok to let a small balance report on Disco or Chase. You also dont have to  just use one card or the other you can use both. To me PIF dolves alot of your perceived issues. 

Message 9 of 12
Remedios
Credit Mentor

Re: I apologize if this is a dumb question - Repeat balance transfer

I don't know how Disco will react, but that's a really bad idea.

Capital One has closed cards in the past for this if done one time too many.

The issue is, no one could tell you what constitutes"one time too many" 

You could already be there, or it could take several additional BTs.

Unfortunately, their tolerance level is something you can only find out the hard way. 

Message 10 of 12
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