No credit card required
Browse credit cards from a variety of issuers to see if there's a better card for you.
"Tuesday, the Federal Reserve issued its final rules related to last year's Credit Card Act, which, among other things, will require credit-card companies to consider an applicant's income or assets and current debts before approving credit. To provide flexibility, however, the Fed said that issuers can use "a reasonable estimate" of income or assets based on "statistically sound models."
In hopes of such a decision, the three big credit bureaus have been updating or rolling out products that seek to estimate consumers' incomes, based on information in their credit reports, such as the size and age of their mortgages or the size of their credit limits."
This artilce was posted on the Credit in the News forum.
Does anyone else find this terribly bothersome? Size and age of mortgages? Size of credit limits?
If I live fairly conservatively, how in the world does this tell the credit bureaus how much income I make?
@LynetteM wrote:"Tuesday, the Federal Reserve issued its final rules related to last year's Credit Card Act, which, among other things, will require credit-card companies to consider an applicant's income or assets and current debts before approving credit. To provide flexibility, however, the Fed said that issuers can use "a reasonable estimate" of income or assets based on "statistically sound models."
In hopes of such a decision, the three big credit bureaus have been updating or rolling out products that seek to estimate consumers' incomes, based on information in their credit reports, such as the size and age of their mortgages or the size of their credit limits."
This artilce was posted on the Credit in the News forum.
Does anyone else find this terribly bothersome? Size and age of mortgages? Size of credit limits?
If I live fairly conservatively, how in the world does this tell the credit bureaus how much income I make?
Remember, before the credit crisis, some people income was inflated to qualify for higher mortgages and didn't have to prove it. So, if the CRA's try to base income on information listed on credit reports, it would be misleading.
I've got a great idea!
If I need to provide them with my tax info, maybe I should just send 'em all my books, all my receipts, all of the files lying around, behind and on top of my desk...I'll be more than pleased to have them help me figure it all out!
My income stream is extremely convoluted. Any estimate they've got on me has to be wrong. Like LynetteM, I also live very conservatively, and many times I pay cash if I can negotiate a good discount.
Good luck to them.
@Anonymous wrote:
Are we going to be able to see these estimated income limits when we pull our credit report now? If they are going to be using this information will the provide it to us and will we be able to disput it.
No...apparently they don't have to show us or tell us anything.
If these "estimates" start to play a real role in credit decisions, it will open a can of worms. If credit card companies start turning down applicants due to insufficient income, certainly they are going to have to be accountable as to how they made that decision. [Oh...excuse me...I had a fleeting moment of actually believing a credit card company might be accountable to a consumer.]
In many cases, the CRAs can't even get what is reported to them correct. I can only imagine how they will screw up what is NOT reported to them and will only be "estimated."
I have a hard enough time estimating my own income. When I did my app spree, I was under by about 15% since it fluctuates.
I live conservatively (as conservatively as you can live in the northeast), have no mortgage, and a high credit limit about 8% of my annual income. In contrast to someone with a $400k mortgage and high credit limits, I'd expect to come up short.
now they will cut everyone limit saying the credit beuro reported they dont make enough to sustain that credit limit. i wont fill out a 4506-T if they request one. they can just white out the date and put another date in. is bad enough when you call equifax its in another country and all these banks have people in another country that i have to give my ssn to. i had a credit card offer me wallet protection and i was like no thanks so someone can have all my credit card numbers in another country. all this information they are requestion brings up possibality of identy theft. these banks loos tape backups all the time and get there credit card data base hacked and then they send you a new card. just what i want a credit card company loosing all my tax documents my dl my ss card and my credit card number. no thanks. how do we stop the feds from doing this who do we call.
@Anonymous wrote:now they will cut everyone limit saying the credit beuro reported they dont make enough to sustain that credit limit. i wont fill out a 4506-T if they request one. they can just white out the date and put another date in. is bad enough when you call equifax its in another country and all these banks have people in another country that i have to give my ssn to. i had a credit card offer me wallet protection and i was like no thanks so someone can have all my credit card numbers in another country. all this information they are requestion brings up possibality of identy theft. these banks loos tape backups all the time and get there credit card data base hacked and then they send you a new card. just what i want a credit card company loosing all my tax documents my dl my ss card and my credit card number. no thanks. how do we stop the feds from doing this who do we call.
Message Edited by XQ28Libra on 01-13-2010 08:16 PM
IMO, I don't think you have any chance of a big CCC "whiting out" and putting in other dates. If they want other dates, they will just come back to you and request you fill the form out again with the dates they want.
I do agree that there is no such thing as totally secure when it comes to computers, databases and identity and any system has a chance of being compromised.
Finally, the information suggested that lenders won't be allowed to decline solely because of the "estimated income" data. What may happen is that if the estimated income suggests it is possibly to low, they probably will come back and ask for income verification such as pay stubs or W2's, or possibly tax returns. This isn't new, PenFed and Addison regularly request income docs. Alliant does part of the time. NFCU required pay stubs.
The intent here is to make sure that lenders to don't over extend reasonable limits to individuals who can't possibly pay back the credit or loans. This has taken 2 forks: 1) the part where anyone under 21 will have to prove financial ability to pay; 2) lenders are being told to use reasonable means test to conclude that the borrower has an ability to pay, both by what their income is and by what their existing debt and CL's are.
When you think about it, nobody needs $300,000 in CL's when they have a $70k or less income. But this has happened. If there isn't income and assets to justify, then a means test or income verification isn't unreasonable.
They have done away with the "liar loans" for mortgages (stated income) and they are tightening down on the "liar incomes" or over extensions of credit beyond income./debt ability. This is reasonable when we look at the result of the credit crisis due to wide spread and systemic defaults which had a rippling effect through the markets, employment and overall economy.
IMO
1) It is income -or- assets. It is relatively easy to verify income - not so easy to verify assets, particulary net assets. Are they going to make you appraise your home every time you app credit? In reality this could just be another excuse to put homeowners at a disadvantage when the app for revolving credit.
2) PenFed does not regularly verify income. They occassionally verify income.
@Anonymous wrote:1) It is income -or- assets. It is relatively easy to verify income - not so easy to verify assets, particulary net assets. Are they going to make you appraise your home every time you app credit? In reality this could just be another excuse to put homeowners at a disadvantage when the app for revolving credit.
2) PenFed does not regularly verify income. They occassionally verify income.
1) My interpretation of the assets part is in fact to indicate an income. After all, the more assets, the more likely to have more income. This is why size of mortgage or other loans would be used as a basis to calculate income.
I also don't think that balance sheet or assets/liabilities would be required in every case. That is going to be used as it is now, for mortgages, larger LOC or loans, secured debts, etc.
2) IME, PenFed requires pay stubs about as often as they don't. My meaning: it is not unusual or uncommon for them to do so.
Finally, you have to think about this from a lender perspective. Their business is to loan money. So they are going to do the least required to comply with regs, while still staying within their own risk comfort zone. Lenders don't want and won't create huge bottlenecks for their business, although Fed regs often do a fair job of creating bottlenecks that they must figure out how to deal with.
My only intent in post was to state that it isn't a bad thing for companies who loan to make sure they are making reasonable credit decisions. I think the market didn't really need a lot or new regs, since the very fact that they took losses forced them to tighten standards, reduce CL's at times and look harder at risk and possibly scrutinize applications or incomes more. Thus, the free market tends to even out many things. When the companies lose money, they seek to correct to stop and offset.
In fact, there is a case to be made that the Fed, who now wants to regulate, is a big part of the problem by artificially creating and stimulating money and loans for many years. When there is a surplus of cash, standards have to be lowered in order to get it all put somewhere. Because once all the prime borrowers have borrowed what they want/need, what do lenders do with the rest? They can't just sit on it, because it costs them, due to inflation, due to overhead and operations, due to the method it was obtained, due to shareholder demands for returns. Many, if not most, of the ills came from the heavy hand of regulation creating artificial environments and monetary policy not consistent with actual market conditions.
Where regs come in handy is to assure fair and equal treatment to the consumer. Not necessarily to get into regulating the standards of risk.