@bs1234 wrote:
@okurosetta wrote:
Yes, but there is the "time value" of inevitable!
Years ago, when the Fidelity 2% card switched from Amex to Visa, we "knew" that couldn't last because the interchange fees on Visa were too low to sustain 2%. Still waiting.
We all knew AOD/USAlliance etc couldn't sustain an uncapped 3%. Eventually we were right, but AOD lasted a long time and post-nerf still has value.
Similarly USBAR seemed to be unsustainable and now it is, but again,a good ride.
What stands out about the Smartly is how quickly it was nerfed.
I think it took Cash Plus a year and for BCP it got nerfed on your anniversary date, so some had almost an extra year of uncapped 6%
My emphasis added above - What stands out to me is that it was launched in the first place. There had to be a vocal group of people at US Bank saying that it was not sustainable, but it was launched anyways - if US Bank wants to correct its course, they should probably start listening to those people who advised against this even launching.
I am very happy for those who raked in the cashback while they could, but it is still absolutely wild for a credit card issuer to believe the original format was a good idea, and it is even more true with that same logic that knowledgeable credit card holders should have known the format was unsustainable.
I guess what I'm saying is, sure it was nerfed fast, but it was so broken in the first place that this should have been expected. And indeed, if you go back to the second page of the thread discussing @Gregory1776 said "There is no way this isnt nerfed." Almost a year ago, 9/3/24. Others suggested similar throughout the thread.
Funny enough, a reply a few up from the quoted above said "We thought the Altitude Reserve was unlikely to last in its original form. But it did, with some pretty minor nerfs, not impacting the major feature (3-4.5% on mobile pay)." Welp, RIP on that too...
Three things in life are certain: death, taxes, and credit card nerfs 
APR 
Chopping Block 
P2 Chopping Block 
@okurosetta wrote:
@bs1234 wrote:
@okurosetta wrote:
Yes, but there is the "time value" of inevitable!
Years ago, when the Fidelity 2% card switched from Amex to Visa, we "knew" that couldn't last because the interchange fees on Visa were too low to sustain 2%. Still waiting.
We all knew AOD/USAlliance etc couldn't sustain an uncapped 3%. Eventually we were right, but AOD lasted a long time and post-nerf still has value.
Similarly USBAR seemed to be unsustainable and now it is, but again,a good ride.
What stands out about the Smartly is how quickly it was nerfed.
I think it took Cash Plus a year and for BCP it got nerfed on your anniversary date, so some had almost an extra year of uncapped 6%
My emphasis added above - What stands out to me is that it was launched in the first place. There had to be a vocal group of people at US Bank saying that it was not sustainable, but it was launched anyways - if US Bank wants to correct its course, they should probably start listening to those people who advised against this even launching.
I am very happy for those who raked in the cashback while they could, but it is still absolutely wild for a credit card issuer to believe the original format was a good idea, and it is even more true with that same logic that knowledgeable credit card holders should have known the format was unsustainable.
I guess what I'm saying is, sure it was nerfed fast, but it was so broken in the first place that this should have been expected. And indeed, if you go back to the second page of the thread discussing @Gregory1776 said "There is no way this isnt nerfed." Almost a year ago, 9/3/24. Others suggested similar throughout the thread.
Funny enough, a reply a few up from the quoted above said "We thought the Altitude Reserve was unlikely to last in its original form. But it did, with some pretty minor nerfs, not impacting the major feature (3-4.5% on mobile pay)." Welp, RIP on that too...
Three things in life are certain: death, taxes, and credit card nerfs
I think speed to nerf is a critical factor. Most "good" cards will eventually nerf or get discontinued, and, IMO, there is a time limit after which you cannot really say "I told you so", as riding out the pre-nerf card was a winning strategy. Altitude Reserve was for me a good example, providing great value for several years, so the fact that it is finally nerfed doesn't prove the doubters right! AOD, in which I didn't participate is another, albeit shorter-lived example. And both cards provide some value post nerf.
Smartly v2 is obviously useless, but those that got the good-nerf v1 are still doing well. If they switch all to v2 in say 3 months (which seems far from unlikely) I'll be unhappy but still got value from a card a PCd from an unused cash+
(Some nerfed cards do improve in various ways, e.g. BCP adding 6% streaming, so not always one way).
@bs1234 wrote:
I think speed to nerf is a critical factor. Most "good" cards will eventually nerf or get discontinued, and, IMO, there is a time limit after which you cannot really say "I told you so", as riding out the pre-nerf card was a winning strategy. Altitude Reserve was for me a good example, providing great value for several years, so the fact that it is finally nerfed doesn't prove the doubters right! AOD, in which I didn't participate is another, albeit shorter-lived example. And both cards provide some value post nerf.
Smartly v2 is obviously useless, but those that got the good-nerf v1 are still doing well. If they switch all to v2 in say 3 months (which seems far from unlikely) I'll be unhappy but still got value from a card a PCd from an unused cash+
(Some nerfed cards do improve in various ways, e.g. BCP adding 6% streaming, so not always one way).
My reply wasn't trying to convey that I knew that it would be nerfed this fast, and re-reading it does seem like I oversold that point.
We definitely benefit from hindsight. One thing that struck me while re-reading myFICO and reddit posts from when Smartly was launching was how many were arguing for a one or two card set-up, which was also argued by many for the (pre-nerf) AR. So, knowing that we (credit card nerds/min-max'ers) are not the target market, if a lot of us are arguing a card makes for a strong one or two card set-up, it's broken.
Yes the AR took longer to nerf, but it also had an annual fee (which could be offset/recouped but still), best return was for mobile pay (which could include purchases one may not initially expect but still), and needed to be redeemed for travel to activate bonus (which could be done via cancelled bookings but still). Pre-nerf AR was a very strong card for those who could and were willing to play it right, but there is no question it was wonkier, for lack of a better word.
Really the cards that are most compareable to Smartly would be 3% with AOD (now has a cap) or 2.625% with BoA. If we compare v1 Smartly to those, v1 is absolutely, completely broken. So while I did oversell the speed point, I still agree with the logic - if something is broken it will be nerfed, and the more broken it is the faster it will be nerfed. But with all that said, if we were to go back to launch, I probably would have predicted it would last a year before a nerf, so I would have been wrong. And even rolling the dice for a year (or most of a year) could be worth it for many, especially if just PCing to it, given no SUB in the first place, but also for those who opened a new account but were/are able to put a good amount of spend through it.
Ultimately, I believe the nerfs were inevitable, and unfortunately those still with v1 are likely on borrowed time. Definitely happy for those who have found good return and even moreso for those who still do now, but there's a reason @ptatohed is describing it as a favorite card - because v1 is so strong it is broken. We love these cards when they exist, but they are ephemeral.
@bs1234 wrote:
@okurosetta wrote:
Ultimately, I believe the nerfs were inevitable, and unfortunately those still with v1 are likely on borrowed time. Definitely happy for those who have found good return and even moreso for those who still do now, but there's a reason @ptatohed is describing it as a favorite card - because v1 is so strong it is broken. We love these cards when they exist, but they are ephemeral.
Right, but my conclusion from this is, if your file can take it, jump on too-good-to-be-true cards ASAP so you get the gain while they exist. So an opportunity rather than a bad thing! And as cards die, new ones take their place, perhaps less good but still ok.
And there are very long lived cards that maybe don't get all the praise they deserve. I got the old Chase Amazon Visa in 2004, then giving 3% on Amazon. Since 2017, with prime, it's now 5% on Amazon and WholeFoods (our major grocery) uncapped, So that's one I got when 3% was pretty special, and has only got better! (OK, took 13 years to get there, the opposite of US Bank)
Definitely not disagreeing, just comes down to each person and their willingness to roll the dice. And I have definitely done so myself - I got Affinity Cash Rewards while they still had rotating categories that stacked on base rewards, only had it around a year before it was nerfed but redeemed around $300 in cashback in that time (not counting SUB). I used the hell out of the Curve card while it lasted, can't easily track how profitable it was but moving charges between cards helped eke out more rewards, plus dodge FTFs on certain cards. My Best Western Premier was a great non-category sponge until they changed issuers, initially grandfathered people into old terms, then changed terms within a year (edit to clarify: within a year of me opening the card, not the program existing in that form). I'm currently using Citi SYW for a lot of spend due to offers, but could see it being nerfed at any time.
So yeah, I'm not trying to say those who got on Smartly were wrong to have done so - some people were able to put large amounts of spend through the program to see enough value to be worth opening within a relatively short period of time.
Smartly was nerfed faster than other cards - but v1 also was/is more broken than other cards, particularly for those able to run large amounts of spend through it. Maybe there is some initial shock since the speed at which it was nerfed broke precedent, but especially with the benefit of hindsight, that speed should be understandable, because v1 was/is just that broken.
@bs1234 wrote:
@okurosetta wrote:
Ultimately, I believe the nerfs were inevitable, and unfortunately those still with v1 are likely on borrowed time. Definitely happy for those who have found good return and even moreso for those who still do now, but there's a reason @ptatohed is describing it as a favorite card - because v1 is so strong it is broken. We love these cards when they exist, but they are ephemeral.
Right, but my conclusion from this is, if your file can take it, jump on too-good-to-be-true cards ASAP so you get the gain while they exist. So an opportunity rather than a bad thing! And as cards die, new ones take their place, perhaps less good but still ok.
And there are very long lived cards that maybe don't get all the praise they deserve. I got the old Chase Amazon Visa in 2004, then giving 3% on Amazon. Since 2017, with prime, it's now 5% on Amazon and WholeFoods (our major grocery) uncapped, So that's one I got when 3% was pretty special, and has only got better! (OK, took 13 years to get there, the opposite of US Bank)
Pretty sure Amazon themselves somehow "pay" for the 5% cashback deal since Chase isn't the only Amazon card available with 5% cashback. I dropped my Chase card back in the "we have to do HPs to give you a CLI" days and went to AMEX instead. AMEX had no issues with me asking for CLIs so I have stuck with them. I have a new Chase card now and am curious to see what happens with it.
8/8/25
@ptatohed wrote:
I'm having a hard time understanding the point of this conversation. 4 pages to basically say that the Smartly launched so buffed that nerfs were inevitable. There, one sentence.
With all due respect, I'm almost sensing some sour grapes from those lamenting not getting V1?
That one sentence pretty much does it, gets most of the way there at least. I think there was ultimately more agreement in the back and forth than initially realized, so yeah, became repetitive since wasn't actually much different.
As far as not getting v1, for me personally no. Smartly v1 could/can be incredibly strong for those able to run good amounts of spend through it, but I juggle cards and wouldn't put enough spend on it.