@CBartowski wrote:
@SpaethCo wrote:I think that moving $5k in to Access Investing to qualify for the MS Platinum card seems reasonable. You deal with $5k managed by their robo advisor (costing $15-20/year in management fees), but your benefits are saving $175 on the first additional member card and locking in the $0.01/MR cashout rate which may be useful in certain scenarios.
If you qualify for CashPlus by holding an Access Investing account, however, there is no longer an Engagement Bonus in year 1.
So you'd have to meet all the requirements for the first year just to avoid fees and get nothing beyond the 0.01% interest on your deposits, then you have to hope that the program doesn't change in 2023 to disqualify you from getting the bonus. The whole reason Morgan Stanley launched CashPlus was they needed deposits to keep growing their lending book (see: https://www.advisorhub.com/morgan-stanley-pushes-harder-for-deposits-as-it-nears-loan-capacity/ ). What's changed since the program launched is they acquired E*Trade, and as of 1/1/2022 have just completed merging E*Trade Bank with Morgan Stanley Private Bank bringing along around $70bn in deposits along with it. So with that infusion of deposits, what are the odds that MS will feel the need to keep paying $695 to incentivize deposits from low-fee clients going forward?
With completely safe options like I Bonds paying 7.12% guaranteed for the first 6 months (for purchases through the end of April) and likely a healthy rate for at least the second 6 month block, signing up for the CashPlus package today seems like lighting money on fire to me.Im glad you brought up the first year issue. I've only seen one DP on it and absolutely nothing in the T and Cs. In fact, the T and Cs say the bonus could be delayed for the first year which leads me to believe they still give it in the first year (heres hoping).
**UPDATE**: found a different section where you are 100% right it does specifically state the first year deal. However, the condition is if your only investing relationship is their access investment account (robo) then youll get it 2nd year. It does still say there is a 3 month delay for your first year, then elsewhere in the TCs it addes that detail.
I'm also really glad you passed along the I bond tip. I havent even looked at those things in so long I totally forgot about them!
I agree its a little wonkey BUT worst case is I get another 100k MR and have a card I would have anyway even if maying the AF. Right now the money for the cashplus is just in savings making .45%. Thanks for the input, definately a reality check that this may not be what it seems. I've already begun moving money around so now if nothing else I just want to see if it works ha!
Thanks!
Which part of the T&C's are you both seeing the language about the engagement bonus only being given after the first year for access investing-based relationships? I'm looking at the footnotes on the Cash Plus page, so I I don't think I'm in the right spot to find what you're reading.
I'm seeing this:
"Platinum CashPlus clients are eligible for the Annual Engagement Bonus (the “Bonus”) if they 1) are the Basic Card Member (primary account holder) of the Platinum Card® from American Express Exclusively for Morgan Stanley (the “Card”); or 2) spend at least $100,000 during the calendar year across Morgan Stanley Debit Cards associated with Platinum CashPlus Accounts in their ALG (the “Debit Card Use Threshold”) .
Basic Card Members who apply for, and are approved for, the Card will be eligible to receive a Bonus of $695. Clients who qualify for the Bonus by meeting the Debit Use Threshold are eligible to receive the $695 Bonus, which is typically paid in January of the following calendar year."
This language suggests that the engagement bonus that is given for the $100k debit spend is awardes after the first year rather than the bonus given for plat card holders.
@SpaethCo wrote:
@PullingMeSoftly wrote:
@CBartowski @SpaethCoWhich part of the T&C's are you both seeing the language about the engagement bonus only being given after the first year for access investing-based relationships? I'm looking at the footnotes on the Cash Plus page, so I I don't think I'm in the right spot to find what you're reading.
Page 7 of 8, top right: https://www.morganstanley.com/wealth-disclosures/cashplusaccountdisclosurestatement.pdf
Notwithstanding any other provision of this Disclosure Statement, if you have not opened and maintained a qualified non-CashPlus Account or if your only qualified non-CashPlus Account is a Morgan Stanley Access Investing Account ("MSAI"), you will receive your first Annual Engagement Bonus during the Card Anniversary Month that is 12 months after you first open your American Express Platinum Card and subsequent Annual Engagement Bonuses will be paid annually thereafter.
Edit to add:
The MS Platinum card essentially has 2 parts:
- Apply for an account to qualify for the MS Platinum card. The cheapest MS account here is Access Investing with the $5k minimum to start.
- Open the Cash Plus account, keep a $25k balance, depost $5k/month, do the hokey pokey and turn yourself around and hope that come next year Morgan Stanley is still paying the $695 bonus.
The important thing to note is that you are not grandfathered in to old terms. People who signed up in June/July 2021 under the old terms still got snubbed for the up-front engagement bonus when the revised terms were published toward the end of July stating there was now a 12 month delay on bonus payouts. There is a non-zero risk right now of going through all the Cash Plus motions and having the bonus eliminated before you get your first one.
Step 1 seems rational to me: Deposit $5k in their robo advisor, get an immediate benefit of a complimentary additional member card if you get the MS Platinum card, saving you $175. (net ~$160 benefit after ~$15 in AUM fees) If you just want the free add-on card and $0.01/cash out option, you can stop here.
Step 2 is where things jump the shark: Mess around with $25k in "stuck" funds + $60k/year in money movement for maybe $695 of taxable income.
Thank you @SpaethCo , that is super clear. I was completely unaware of the option of stopping at Step 1, which would be a decent value proposition when looking at Plat versions (other than the $5k being exposed to the market in the limited scope of the robo-advisor's risk/theme options). The MS Plat appears to be the best version for those wanting a P2 card and a cashout option.
You've also given some valuable context to the t&c language. The 25k along with 5k monthly deposits doesn't seem worth it at all with the risk of the bonus being subject to change at any time with no grandfathering. I'd be better off going with a 3% rewards checking account (i.e. First Bank in CA, MO, IL which gives 3% on up to 25k), and taking the interest proceeds to pay the Plat AF. (First Bank would be $750 annually). Bottom line, Step 2 is a dud of a deal.
@PullingMeSoftly wrote:
@CBartowski wrote:
@SpaethCo wrote:I think that moving $5k in to Access Investing to qualify for the MS Platinum card seems reasonable. You deal with $5k managed by their robo advisor (costing $15-20/year in management fees), but your benefits are saving $175 on the first additional member card and locking in the $0.01/MR cashout rate which may be useful in certain scenarios.
If you qualify for CashPlus by holding an Access Investing account, however, there is no longer an Engagement Bonus in year 1.
So you'd have to meet all the requirements for the first year just to avoid fees and get nothing beyond the 0.01% interest on your deposits, then you have to hope that the program doesn't change in 2023 to disqualify you from getting the bonus. The whole reason Morgan Stanley launched CashPlus was they needed deposits to keep growing their lending book (see: https://www.advisorhub.com/morgan-stanley-pushes-harder-for-deposits-as-it-nears-loan-capacity/ ). What's changed since the program launched is they acquired E*Trade, and as of 1/1/2022 have just completed merging E*Trade Bank with Morgan Stanley Private Bank bringing along around $70bn in deposits along with it. So with that infusion of deposits, what are the odds that MS will feel the need to keep paying $695 to incentivize deposits from low-fee clients going forward?
With completely safe options like I Bonds paying 7.12% guaranteed for the first 6 months (for purchases through the end of April) and likely a healthy rate for at least the second 6 month block, signing up for the CashPlus package today seems like lighting money on fire to me.Im glad you brought up the first year issue. I've only seen one DP on it and absolutely nothing in the T and Cs. In fact, the T and Cs say the bonus could be delayed for the first year which leads me to believe they still give it in the first year (heres hoping).
**UPDATE**: found a different section where you are 100% right it does specifically state the first year deal. However, the condition is if your only investing relationship is their access investment account (robo) then youll get it 2nd year. It does still say there is a 3 month delay for your first year, then elsewhere in the TCs it addes that detail.
I'm also really glad you passed along the I bond tip. I havent even looked at those things in so long I totally forgot about them!
I agree its a little wonkey BUT worst case is I get another 100k MR and have a card I would have anyway even if maying the AF. Right now the money for the cashplus is just in savings making .45%. Thanks for the input, definately a reality check that this may not be what it seems. I've already begun moving money around so now if nothing else I just want to see if it works ha!
Thanks!
Which part of the T&C's are you both seeing the language about the engagement bonus only being given after the first year for access investing-based relationships? I'm looking at the footnotes on the Cash Plus page, so I I don't think I'm in the right spot to find what you're reading.
I'm seeing this:
"Platinum CashPlus clients are eligible for the Annual Engagement Bonus (the “Bonus”) if they 1) are the Basic Card Member (primary account holder) of the Platinum Card® from American Express Exclusively for Morgan Stanley (the “Card”); or 2) spend at least $100,000 during the calendar year across Morgan Stanley Debit Cards associated with Platinum CashPlus Accounts in their ALG (the “Debit Card Use Threshold”) .
Basic Card Members who apply for, and are approved for, the Card will be eligible to receive a Bonus of $695. Clients who qualify for the Bonus by meeting the Debit Use Threshold are eligible to receive the $695 Bonus, which is typically paid in January of the following calendar year."
This language suggests that the engagement bonus that is given for the $100k debit spend is awardes after the first year rather than the bonus given for plat card holders.
@PullingMeSoftly mine actually read differently :
