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Unprofitable Rewards

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Unprofitable Rewards


@Anonymous wrote:


Actually, credit cards will continue to be the better option even if rewards go away. Neither cash or debit are secure in that losses are on the FI who issues the card. 


Although probably harder to push through in the US, this could be "nerfed" too.   In the UK, once chip&pin was implemented, issuers were able to push the burden of proof on to the customer, if the correct PIN was used (on a card present transaction), either a) you did the transaction, or b) you had kept the PIN with the card breaking the rules.    There have been several cases where something went wrong and the transaction was indeed fraud.

 

But even without that, the standard of proof demanded could increase, you have to prove (to some level) that it wasn't you that made the transaction, have a police report, sign a notarized document etc. 

 

Hopefully not!

Message 21 of 45
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Unprofitable Rewards


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:


Actually, credit cards will continue to be the better option even if rewards go away. Neither cash or debit are secure in that losses are on the FI who issues the card. 


Although probably harder to push through in the US, this could be "nerfed" too.   In the UK, once chip&pin was implemented, issuers were able to push the burden of proof on to the customer, if the correct PIN was used (on a card present transaction), either a) you did the transaction, or b) you had kept the PIN with the card breaking the rules.    There have been several cases where something went wrong and the transaction was indeed fraud.

 

But even without that, the standard of proof demanded could increase, you have to prove (to some level) that it wasn't you that made the transaction, have a police report, sign a notarized document etc. 

 

Hopefully not!


ETA:  I just realized this doesn't make sense as a reason to use credit cards vs cash, as it pertains to someone else using your card, and if someone else is using your cash there is no easy recourse!

Message 22 of 45
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Unprofitable Rewards


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:


Actually, credit cards will continue to be the better option even if rewards go away. Neither cash or debit are secure in that losses are on the FI who issues the card. 


Although probably harder to push through in the US, this could be "nerfed" too.   In the UK, once chip&pin was implemented, issuers were able to push the burden of proof on to the customer, if the correct PIN was used (on a card present transaction), either a) you did the transaction, or b) you had kept the PIN with the card breaking the rules.    There have been several cases where something went wrong and the transaction was indeed fraud.

 

But even without that, the standard of proof demanded could increase, you have to prove (to some level) that it wasn't you that made the transaction, have a police report, sign a notarized document etc. 

 

Hopefully not!


There’s a simple reason why they won’t try to put that burden on consumers though and if you’re a conspiracy theorist, the same motivation could be behind chip and signature debit cards. Credit card companies want you to use credit cards for everything and a great way to do that is to make them the secure way to pay, with zero fraud liability. 

 

Besides, issuers already will take action when a consumer is suspected of trying to game the system with fraud disputes — it can get your card shut down. 

 

And regardless of the rules involved, debit and cash are both cash. Fraud causes an immediate loss, even if the bank reimburses it in the end. Credit is not a material loss unless you lose the investigation and then pay the bill. 

Message 23 of 45
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Unprofitable Rewards


@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:


Actually, credit cards will continue to be the better option even if rewards go away. Neither cash or debit are secure in that losses are on the FI who issues the card. 


Although probably harder to push through in the US, this could be "nerfed" too.   In the UK, once chip&pin was implemented, issuers were able to push the burden of proof on to the customer, if the correct PIN was used (on a card present transaction), either a) you did the transaction, or b) you had kept the PIN with the card breaking the rules.    There have been several cases where something went wrong and the transaction was indeed fraud.

 

But even without that, the standard of proof demanded could increase, you have to prove (to some level) that it wasn't you that made the transaction, have a police report, sign a notarized document etc. 

 

Hopefully not!


There’s a simple reason why they won’t try to put that burden on consumers though and if you’re a conspiracy theorist, the same motivation could be behind chip and signature debit cards. Credit card companies want you to use credit cards for everything and a great way to do that is to make them the secure way to pay, with zero fraud liability. 

 

Besides, issuers already will take action when a consumer is suspected of trying to game the system with fraud disputes — it can get your card shut down. 

 

And regardless of the rules involved, debit and cash are both cash. Fraud causes an immediate loss, even if the bank reimburses it in the end. Credit is not a material loss unless you lose the investigation and then pay the bill. 


I think if security was a whole ton better than it is (for instance, chip and PIN required for every in person purchase and some form of 2FA for every online one), fraud levels would be low enough that debit vs. credit wouldn't matter much. Of course, I don't see that ever happening here--at least not without being forced into it.

 

The upside is that we might actually be forced into better online security thanks to stuff like the EU's SCA rules and fraud levels simply becoming too high for banks and merchants to continue paying out. I'm sure it won't nearly be as secure as 2FA for every purchase (I can see the rules being such that Amazon can continue offering one click ordering with few changes, for example) but whatever the US goes with might be enough regardless.

Message 24 of 45
Aim_High
Super Contributor

Re: Unprofitable Rewards


@Anonymous wrote:    One or two transactions won't make me profitable, but may keep a computer algorithm from triggering my account as a "category only" rewards user.

I don't worry about being a "category only" rewards user.

I've also never heard of anyone getting "flagged" for it!

It's not breaking any rules or abuse to be smart about card use.

Is there any history of this with any lenders??


Business Cards


Length of Credit > 40 years; Total Credit Limits >$936K
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Message 25 of 45
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Unprofitable Rewards

The way I see it, if I don’t make something I’m not using it. Lol
Message 26 of 45
kdm31091
Super Contributor

Re: Unprofitable Rewards


@Aim_High wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:    One or two transactions won't make me profitable, but may keep a computer algorithm from triggering my account as a "category only" rewards user.

I don't worry about being a "category only" rewards user.

I've also never heard of anyone getting "flagged" for it!

It's not breaking any rules or abuse to be smart about card use.

Is there any history of this with any lenders??


Although I don't have any real proof, I would say credit card issuer's algorithims probably can/do take into account if you're only using the card for "bonus" reward categories. Whether it matters for anything at all is anyone's guess, but it's not crazy to think they notice if you only use it for bonus spend.

Message 27 of 45
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Unprofitable Rewards

Heavy use would be $25-30K per year. Christmas card from Citi. I've spread it around more now.

Citi DC, about $600-800/month now. CL 40K.
CO Savor, $700-800/mo, CL 27.5K
BoA Cash rewards, $700-800/mo, CL 35.8K
Chase Freedom, $100/mo, CL 23.6K
Amex Everyday cash, $200/mo, CL 30K
PNC Cash Rewards, $250/mo, CL 17.5K
Discover IT, $75/mo, CL 18.2K
Wells Propel, $250/mo, CL 12K
Never carry a balance unless at 0%
Message 28 of 45
zerofire
Valued Contributor

Re: Unprofitable Rewards

"I spent $25-30k and all I got was this lousy Christmas card" should be on a shirt for you rsmy1234.

TU:816 12/19/24 Bank of America--EX: 809 01/03/25 Experian--EQ:836 01/06/25 myFICO--Gardening since N/A
Active:
Bank of America (Customized Cash Rewards VSC, Unlimited Cash Rewards WMC{PT}), Capital One (Discover It DC, Savor WEMC), Chase (Amazon Prime VSC, Freedom Flex WEMC [x2]), Citi (Custom Cash WEMC, Dividend MC), Citizens GreenSense WMC, Curve WEMC{S}, FNBO Ducks Unlimited VSC, GBank VSC, Imprint Rakuten AC,PenFed Pathfinder Rewards VSC, Santander Ultimate Cash Back WMC, Synchrony PayPal Cashback WMC, UMB Simply Rewards VSC[Milford Federal], US Bank (Cash+ VSC [x2], Kroger Rewards WEMC, Pick n Save/Metro Market Rewards WEMC, Shield VC)
Wishlist: AAA Daily Advantage, AOD Signature, Aven, Bellco Colorado Rewards, Nusenda Platinum Cash Rewards, PCMCU Platinum Rewards, Redstone FCU Signature
Message 29 of 45
red259
Super Contributor

Re: Unprofitable Rewards


@Anonymous wrote:

You may not be profitable but there are more people out there that are profitable.


+1 If it wasn't profitable for card companies to do this they wouldn't be doing it all this time. 

;
Starting Score: EQ: 714, TU 684
Current Score: EQ: 725 7/30/13, TU 684 6/2013, Exp 828 5/2018, Last App 8/5/17
Goal Score: 800 (Achieved!) In garden until Sepetember 2019
Message 30 of 45
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