I'm late. What downgrades?
@ohjoy wrote:I'm late. What downgrades?
None. Every year Marriott examines the rewards category of each property and makes changes up or down depending on demand, location, and pricing. This always gets translated on the internet as a massive devaluation to the rewards program because only the increases in rewards categories ever get mentioned so when a handful of properties require more points for an award booking, blog articles and forum posts use them as examples to show how worthless the Marriott program is and why you should switch to Hilton and get a Hilton credit card [insert referral link here] or switch to Hyatt and get a Hyatt credit card [insert referral link here]. For every property that requires more points after this annual change, there is also a property that goes down in points required.
I do an eye roll every time I see those articles, but the more people that jump ship from Marriott, the more upgrades that are available for me, so I probably shouldn't discourage them. 😂
Edit: Actually looking at the first page of this thread, OP was referring to Marriott being late about downgrading status for those that did not qualify again for their previous status. Usually that change happens in February to allow time for missed credits, but looks like they didn't make the adjustments until a little later. Marriott makes those requirements crystal clear. If you have Titanium Elite status and only get 51 of the required 75 nights in a given year, there is no reason the status shouldn't be downgraded to Platinum.
@notmyrealname23 wrote:
I'm not going to tell someone who finds great value in a loyalty program that meets their travel needs that they're wrong for making that choice (if you're loving Marriott Titanium or Ambassador ot Unobtanium or whatever, and you do a lot of travel, you know what you're doing and who treats you well, go you), but it's a slam dunk that the AMEX Hilton Aspire beats the AMEX Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant as a card, unless you just have a way outsize valuation of Marriott vs. Hilton points. Having great credit card options that provide meaningful status and benefits is a good way to make you loyal to a brand.
No, and I certainly won't tell anyone they're wrong for choosing Hilton or any other brand as well. In my experience, I think that even after the merger was complete, the Amex Marriott Brilliant and Chase Ritz-Carlton cards are still the superior products, but it really depends on how you ultimately end up using the points, where you stay, and where you are with status.
The points you're getting for Hilton stays when you hold the Aspire/Diamond and pay with it are something like a 15-20% rebate (depending on where you slot Hilton points for equivalent cash value). You just aren't going to match that on the Bonvoy Brilliant side just holding the card unless you think 2 Hilton < 1 Marriott (given the new Marriott chart I would question that valuation). It's also pretty stupid simple to get $600+ in value from resort credits/airline credits/free weekend nights off a $450 card without much of an effort. And useful status for breakfast and executive club access during stays is not nothing. Hilton's not amazing with upgrades when you're in the US (my upgrades as a Gold tended to be outside the US) but last I checked they don't have a disgruntled customer hate site either.
With 2nd tier Titanium status, you earn 17.5 points per dollar, the Marriott cards add another 6 points, and there's a welcome gift of 1000 points for most properties. So on a single night for $200, that works out to 5700 points. At 1cpp (which I find to be a fair value for Marriott, and I won't redeem for less than that), that's a 35.1% return. Even dropping it down to TPG value of 0.8 cpp, it's still 22.8%. I would agree that for a casual traveler who would not earn status organically, Hilton may be a better option to rack up points.
In most cases, I do find Marriott points to be worth twice that of Hilton (as does Amex when looking at MR transfers). It varies by property and dates of course, so for every good Hilton value you might find, I can find cases where I'd need 5-10x the amount of Hilton points to stay in the same city at a comparable property. While it's not that extreme going the other way around, I am sure you could also find many cases where certain properties may be significaintly less than 1cpp at Marriott, particularly now with many hotel rates decreased over their norms. Marriott also has a 5th night free on redemptions, so the value of any stay in increments of 5 nights increases by 25%.
In the case of transferring points to airlines, it's much easier to make an apples to apples comparison as the transfer rates are clearly listed and are steady. Marriott points are worth 4.17x to 20x as much as Hilton points if your ultimate goal is to transfer points to an airline. That's not to say that Marriott points are worth 20x as much, but in this use scenario they can be, and ultimately you just don't want to use Hilton points for an airline transfer.
As for the value of the cards, I got far more than the $450 annual fee using my 50k certificate (and 100k points) for a 3-night stay at Ritz-Carlton last year, which was right around $800/night. Then there's the $300 credit which applies to any room charges including the nightly rate, which makes it a $150 AF as long as you spend at least $300 at Marriott each year.
Also, it's not that hard to find people who aren't shilling credit cards to tell you when a program like Marriott is devaluing (and it has been), not that the travel bloggers are lying, but if you mistrust them the data's right there. The actual numbers don't lie (spoiler: it's not 1 hotel up, 1 hotel down) and you can check the math yourself. This isn't to say Hilton doesn't do it, or IHG, or... (fill in the blank). They all do it. But don't kid yourself that Marriott hasn't been snipping away at things like AMEX earn (it earned better as the SPG AMEX card) and slowly floating hotel point redemption rates up.
I stand corrected. In the past, the changes have generally been 1:1. Starwood no longer exists and the value was extremely oversized with the generous 3:1 transfer ratio and matching Gold status for a much better Gold status that was more like Platinum status. Yes, it was a devastating blow to those of us with SPG Gold who were earning Starwood points and spending them as Marriott points. 2017-2018 was an incredible honeymoon period in that case, and I consistently earned 7.5% to 8% back on ALL spend during that period - it was amazing! So there was a huge decline for Starwood elites who were reaping massive Marriott benefits and value, yes. The end result after the merger is that Marriott cards actually earn more than they did before, though, so it may not be completely fair to compare today with how myself and others used the two programs to every advantage for 2 years. And boy did I use it! For paid nights, I was getting about 50% back in points value and usually staying 5 nights, which essentially worked out to pay for 8 nights and get 5 nights free!
I don't do enough road warrior stuff to make investing in attaining über-elite status anywhere remotely worthwhile, and I'm not surprised that Marriott and Hyatt's über-elite status is better than a status you can get with a credit card, but "not as good as actually spending 100 nights with a chain" doesn't mean "no value".
As I said before, I think the Hilton card may work out better for a lot of people who travel less frequently and would not organically earn higher status. There's no right or wrong here. For a lot of people, Hilton provides great value. Since I know the ins and outs of Marriott quite well and I do stay enough to earn higher elite status, I find much more value there. There's also the footprint issue. Marriott is a substantially larger company (especially if you take away Hilton's large number of timeshare properties from the number of properties), and Marriott has presence in a lot of places that Hilton doesn't. Status and earnings do no good if you need to stay 2 country borders away from your destination.
@Anonymous wrote:Paging @K-in-Boston , while not exactly on topic I thought I ask in a relevant thread dealing with Marriott. I recently got the email about my free night certificate in April and that i had a year to use it. I'm curious though if due to the pandemic it has been extended, as i couldn't find any thing about it beside a brief mention from a blog. Nor did they touch on the subject in the email.
Do you know where to go to find out about it, or if they did indeed extend them? Not that I feel i won't be able to use it within a year, but the not knowing when and where is a little unsettling.
My renewal was in March with the AF posting on my 02 APR statement. The certificate arrived earlier this week and is valid for 1 year.