A Collection Question

[Anonymous]

@Remedios Yeah that’s what I’m thinking is it was internal collections. And I totally understand you have to notify the CA if you collect. But, if you collect and notify the CA, even though you may have to compensate them for their work, isn’t it still recalled? Since you were paid? I mean they didn’t collect it. you collected it. Do you even still have to compensate them since they did not collect anything? it does end the contract though, so I was thinking it would have to be recalled?

[Remedios]

---

@Anonymous wrote:
@RemediosYeah that’s what I’m thinking is it was internal collections. And I totally understand you have to notify the CA if you collect. But, if you collect and notify the CA, even though you may have to compensate them for their work, isn’t it still recalled? Since you were paid? I mean they didn’t collect it. you collected it. Do you even still have to compensate them since they did not collect anything? it does end the contract though, so I was thinking it would have to be recalled?

---

Nope, it doesnt end the contract and accepting payment is not "recalling".

Keep in mind that "recalling" is another way of saying "delete", only it sounds better. 

To truly "recall" provider would have to claim an error happened on their end, such as improper billing, claim reprocessed, etc. 

When  provider takes a payment,  it doesnt negate the fact account is in collections. 

It's just that communication goes Provider to CA vs CA to Provider when it comes to payment, and allocation of funds. 

If you collect and notify CA, all they have to do is accurately report the balance, which is in accordance to reporting manual and instructions provided by CRAs. 

Medical collections are a hot mess, so a lot of CAs that specialize in those will delete upon receiving the payment (and I'm in total agreement when it comes to medical collections, but that's a whole another topic). 

We dont even send anyone who bothers paying $5.00 per month on a $5000.00 bill. 

[Anonymous]

---

@Remedios wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:
@RemediosYeah that’s what I’m thinking is it was internal collections. And I totally understand you have to notify the CA if you collect. But, if you collect and notify the CA, even though you may have to compensate them for their work, isn’t it still recalled? Since you were paid? I mean they didn’t collect it. you collected it. Do you even still have to compensate them since they did not collect anything? it does end the contract though, so I was thinking it would have to be recalled?

---

Nope, it doesnt end the contract and accepting payment is not "recalling".

Keep in mind that "recalling" is another way of saying "delete", only it sounds better. 

To truly "recall" provider would have to claim an error happened on their end, such as improper billing, claim reprocessed, etc. 

When  provider takes a payment,  it doesnt negate the fact account is in collections. 

It's just that communication goes Provider to CA vs CA to Provider when it comes to payment, and allocation of funds. 

If you collect and notify CA, all they have to do is accurately report the balance, which is in accordance to reporting manual and instructions provided by CRAs. 

Medical collections are a hot mess, so a lot of CAs that specialize in those will delete upon receiving the payment (and I'm in total agreement when it comes to medical collections, but that's a whole another topic). 

We dont even send anyone who bothers paying $5.00 per month on a $5000.00 bill. 

---

@Anonymous You should ask OC to recall the collection since you paid in full, if they have not already. Explain you thought it would be recalled upon payment in full, so you just wanted to make sure. Just to be safe. Because true enough payment is not synonymous with recall.

Typically you offer to pay if they will recall. But I don't see any reason why they shouldn't. But since it hasn't already reported I think it's in-house collections and you have nothing to worry about anyway. You paid it before reported, so it probably never went to outside collections, but better safe than sorry.

@Remedios I respectfully disagree that recalling is synonymous with deletion. Recalling is in fact what requires deletion according to the CRA policy and manual, IIRC. You can recall and the CA could fail to delete it.  I remember reading many posts and I think some from @RobertEG that specifically stated when recalled the CA is required to delete. If recall was deletion, there wouldn't be another step or a requirement for the CA to delete, right? Or am I missing something? 

Also I don't understand how it does not end the contract. There's nothing left to be performed under the contract, so why would it not be ended?

And you typically have the right to recall the debt and assign it to another CA, for various reasons contractually. I would imagine one would be if you're not satisfied with their progress in collecting the debt?  (That's actually one of the reasons for the CRA deletion policy, to prevent duplicate collections. The CA is contractually required to delete if the debt is recalled.) There's multiple reasons allowing recall and I believe its within your discretion when and if to recall, since you are the CAs customer.

Now if the debt was sold to the CA that would be a little different. But if you assign it to a CA, you are giving them a job and you have the right to recall it if they're not doing a good job right? Do you even have to justify your reason for recall? And if so, why? Is it a term of the contract? Or am I missing something?

I agree with you about medical collections in general. And can they send it to collections if payments are being made?

[Anonymous]

@Birdman7  & @Remedios..Thank you both for taking out the time to answer this for me. I am thinking that I should call the billing department and find out if this has been past on to a CA and if so if they are going to recall the account since it has been paid in full.. My hope is that it will never be reported. But it seems that since the payment was accepted by OC that the CRAs should delete it if for some reason it does get reported.. In any case the CA must contact me about the collection before it is reported. And when I request validation of the account, I can then show it is not accurate because it is a paid account.. Well thank you both again. You were a big help to me.

[Remedios]

@Anonymous  you are convoluting issues here.

Yes, if recalled, it has to be removed. 

However, every provider (or any entity) has a contract that states in no uncertain terms when an account can be taken out of collections. Wanting to keep money for yourself is not one of the reasons.

Practical applications of accounts receivable have nothing to do with reporting, otherwise everyone would recall and no one would struggle with removing them.

As an example, I could steal some money from you. You, in turn, file a police report. 

Because you filed police report, I tell you I'll pay you back if you recant (or recall, if you will) your statement. 

Then you lie to the police about your statement because that's how you will get your money from me. 

Reporting is one thing. How provider and CA operate based on mutual agreement is a whole another thing. 

As someone who's de facto administrator of a very large practice, I can tell you that once you gain  reputation for "recalling", you're stuck with bottom feeder agencies. 

Additionally,  the point I failed to make earlier, a lot of contracts include "Provider will not accept payment" clause, because it's an important one. 

If provider accepts payment,  that's not the cause for recalling, only for notification of payment. 

Contract states how proceeds are to be split. When you take it out because you arent willing to give up 40%, you broke the contract. 

What CA does once notified of payment, be it report $0.00 balance, or delete their reporting so they dont have to deal with disputes later is their business. 

There is a world of difference between having to recall an account that shouldn't have been in collections, and making a false claim that account shouldn't have been in collections to begin with. 

Real life applications vastly differ from theoretical exercises. 

[Remedios]

@Anonymous  I think you've dodged this one completely, I really wouldn't sweat it. If it was going to report, it had 2.5 years. You're fine. 

Dont poke the bear, just leave it be. 

[Anonymous]

---

@Remedios wrote:

@Anonymous  you are convoluting issues here.

Yes, if recalled, it has to be removed. 

However, every provider (or any entity) has a contract that states in no uncertain terms when an account can be taken out of collections. Wanting to keep money for yourself is not one of the reasons.

Practical applications of accounts receivable have nothing to do with reporting, otherwise everyone would recall and no one would struggle with removing them.

As an example, I could steal some money from you. You, in turn, file a police report. 

Because you filed police report, I tell you I'll pay you back if you recant (or recall, if you will) your statement. 

Then you lie to the police about your statement because that's how you will get your money from me. 

Reporting is one thing. How provider and CA operate based on mutual agreement is a whole another thing. 

As someone who's de facto administrator of a very large practice, I can tell you that once you gain  reputation for "recalling", you're stuck with bottom feeder agencies. 

Additionally,  the point I failed to make earlier, a lot of contracts include "Provider will not accept payment" clause, because it's an important one. 

If provider accepts payment,  that's not the cause for recalling, only for notification of payment. 

Contract states how proceeds are to be split. When you take it out because you arent willing to give up 40%, you broke the contract. 

What CA does once notified of payment, be it report $0.00 balance, or delete their reporting so they dont have to deal with disputes later is their business. 

There is a world of difference between having to recall an account that shouldn't have been in collections, and making a false claim that account shouldn't have been in collections to begin with. 

Real life applications vastly differ from theoretical exercises. 

---

@Remedios Thank you for taking the time to explain more about the details of how it works between provider and CA. The "provider will not accept payment" clause is something I would definitely expect to be standard.

I would love to learn more information if you're willing to take the time to teach me. For instance, what are the allowable reasons for a provider to recall an account? Are they standard?

I'm sure wanting to keep the money for yourself is not an allowable reason nor was that my intent. I was not proposing anything unethical. I would think OC would pay the 40% to the CA and recall it upon the OC obtaining payment. Guess that's wrong? Are we to assume it's in-house collections since the provider accepted payment? Or that there was no such clause?

Does recalling due to nonpayment happen often? You know to assign it to a different agency for better luck?

[Anonymous]

I have used everything from national collection agencies and local collection agencies and have sold accounts. Never had an issue getting an account back. Yes, a couple of times the CA wanted some minimal fee. That agency lost any future business. FWIW, I personally have had accounts returned to the original creditor. Everything is negotiable.

[Anonymous]

@Anonymous yes if the worst happens I would definitely DV, just make sure you do it within 30 days. They have no incentive to even respond since it's paid.

[Anonymous]

That brings up another question. Is it legal for them to report a collection even after it's been paid? Especially if it's before you were even notified of your Dunning rights?