@Anonymous wrote:
@Revelate wrote:I don't think that makes much sense senor unless I don't understand the objective.
If we're trying to do real analysis here either an AU account counts, or it doesn't.
If it does, it factors just like an individually owned tradeline in which case if we're really trying to get to the real point which is what does it take to get to a 850 on FICO 8, AU's and joint accounts should be included frankly.
I'm just not personally confident in the additional variable of AU accounts... whether they "count" or "don't count" or "count differently" etc. If you're confident in them that's great, but I'm not. Again, anyone is free to provide any data that they have, so if someone with an 850 and AU account present wants to post that's absolutely fine.
I think some sanity checking can be done, namely AZEO testing to confirm it, and really if someone comes in with a 12 year AU and everything else is 2 years or below and if they have a 850 somehow, pretty sure it counts.
Doesn't matter I don't think we're going to get many datapoints anyway there haven't been that many reported 850's over time here and many of those don't frequent the forums anyway anymore.
As is looks like mortgages count full monty for installment utilization and as such unless I manage to come up with 200k to pay that down I'm basically useless anyway for chasing an 850 anytime soon. Well guess I could sell my condo, but no.
@Anonymous wrote:
@Revelate wrote:As is looks like mortgages count full monty for installment utilization and as such unless I manage to come up with 200k to pay that down I'm basically useless anyway for chasing an 850 anytime soon.
What do you mean by that? You don't need to pay down a mortgage all that much percentage wise in order to achieve an 850.
Not and be meaningfully useful datapoint wise for an 850 anytime soon.
Sure I could tack on another six years or whatever and be there, but if I need 20 points to hit 850 currently the obvious one would be installment utilization.
In order to see what the minimum AOOA is for an 850 a file has to be ruthlessly optimized:
| Installment Utilization | 2-Jun | 794 | |
| Name | Current | Original | Ratio |
| Mortgage | 205299 | 258750 | 0.793 |
| Auto | 39972 | 55700 | 0.718 |
| Total | 245271 | 314450 | 0.78 |
That's not optimized by any strech of the imagination, I haven't even hit the not quite confirmed first breakpoint yet let alone being anywhere close to known second.
ROFL, it's even worse than that, this scoring metric sucks with a mortgage: 200k doesn't even get me there, FICO sucketh on this one.
| Installment Utilization | Fakesy | ||
| Name | Current | Original | Ratio |
| Mortgage | 5299 | 258750 | 0.02 |
| Auto | 39972 | 55700 | 0.718 |
| Total | 45271 | 314450 | 0.144 |
@Anonymous wrote:I would think your auto loan would be the constraint to 850, not the mortgage, as many people can achieve an 850 FICO score with their mortgage at 70%-80% utilization. Throw a high utilization auto loan into the mix and I'm not sure, though.
Given the following facts:
- The reason code clearly states mortgage or non-mortgage installment loans.
- Individuals with only mortgages (at 50 someodd percent too) have this reason code, which we know goes away at 8.9%.
- Every datapoint to date has confirmed aggregate matters only.
Why would you even conjecture that the auto loan would make the case there? As is I'm paying down the auto loan with a vengeance (another 8k paid last month) so we'll see, but I'm pretty sure my auto loan left at $5 and the mortgage still hanging out around 200k isn't going to be rid of the reason code nor the usual 20-30 points that we all know to be the case for this swing.
My point is given enough age you're right you can get to 850 even with a shoddy installment utilization, but if we're trying to find the minimum to hit 850, you need pretty installment utilization. It's as simple as that, because no file is, in my words, ruthlessly optimized under FICO 8 without it.
@Anonymous wrote:Yes the reason code exists; I still get it with my mortgage at 70-something percent utilization... but a mortgage at (say) 50% utilization is not equal to an auto loan at 50% utilization. Reason code there does not mean it's impacting equally. A non-mortgage loan crossing the 8.9% threshold is going to yield more FICO points than a mortgage crossing the 8.9% threshold because mortgages are considered "considerably paid down" far sooner percentage wise. This is why you'll find many people with high mortgage utilization (like me) with 850 scores. I personally don't believe that "aggregate matters only" but that it matters along with installment loan type(s).
Find me any data supporting any of that. I'm sorry but I'm going to suggest there's zero: that is pure conjecture and at some point you have to consider Occam's Razor.
Other than the obvious some people have 850's with mortgage percentages above optimal, no s***, so do others with accounts with balances that ain't optimal, or inquiries that ain't optimal, or a bunch of other things. Hello buffer.
So far we know 50% or so isn't optimal with just a mortgage, which suggests the breakpoint is somewhere lower than that, so your own file being an 850 at 70-something isn't relevant except to explicitly prove my point: you can be at an 850 with sub-optimal installment utilization.
Starting to think you are doing this just to pick the fight, but please look at the data.