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All cards at zero: –32, –37 points

tag
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points

And while we contemplate how much score impact AZ has in the moment, note that score only went down to 780’s. This is due to known recent payment history no doubt, just zero “today” balance. 

 

What happens to a file left with AZ consistently for 6 months or a year?  The monthly “Ok” may keep adding for open accounts, but is that sufficient to keep a score in the 780’s long term? Is there another decay factor if AZ continues?   

High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 31 of 56
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points

There are a ton of people in the world that are likely at AZ all the time.  Unfortunately, we probably won't find many of them here.  There are lots of people that [frequently] use their cards and pay them off immediately resulting in balances never being reported.  I think it would be very difficult to find such a person and see what happens if they finally let a balance report, or vice versa.

Message 32 of 56
HeavenOhio
Senior Contributor

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points


@NRB525 wrote:

@HeavenOhio wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
HO, you don’t have any closed installment loans on your record either?

No closed loans.


The first step in any validation might be to try going to AZEO, then back to AZ, without crossing a month, to see if the magnitude is similar for just that change.  


That's exactly the plan. I had a $400 balance cut yesterday. That will bring me to my AZEO scores.

 

AZEO is a logical stopping point right after AZ. My initial plan was to let that card's whole 4.6k balance report. I'm one who's been dinged at numbers below the generally accepted 8.9/28.9, and I figured this would be a good time to test that. But when AZ popped up, I figured that AZEO would be a more appropriate test, so I paid the balance down.

Message 33 of 56
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points

HO, awesome, good deal I am looking forward and following this with great interest. Additionally, I am bouncing back-and-forth between AZ and AZEO doing some testing on my own. I will say this, I have been very very pleasantly surprised at how quickly the MF balance change alert that accompanies the score change for AZ and AZEO has came. For some reason they’ve been uncharacteristically quick lately. Wish that were true of the rest of the alerts. I wonder if it’s due to the issuer? EX is still the last one to the party by day though.
Message 34 of 56
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points

 

It's for this reason that I never let the balance on my "EO" card be zero, I always make sure it has some positive balance, however small, so that if it reports at a surprising moment in time I'm not left with all zero. (Not an interest generating balance, just not paid down all the way to zero).

 

The flip side is that it's then possible to have another card report a non-zero balance unexpectedly and have AZE2 instead of AZE1. But that's a much smaller impact, a couple of points, and not 30!

Message 35 of 56
NRB525
Super Contributor

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points

Perhaps one way to try to stay at “AZ” would be to leave all revolvers at zero, and only use an AMEX charge card. If I understand correctly that may be a proxy for AZ?

And my guess is that even if someone maintains AZ, as long as a set of (or one) credit card remains open, adding to aging, scores should continue to increase over time, due to simple aging of the file. There would be points “missed” with no revolver reporting a balance but the trend should be up.

The next question, is it sufficient to have only one AMEX charge card open, no other CC, to see scores rise. The same issue with “missing points from no revolving CC” but the foundation of credit is still building history.
High Bal Jan 2009 $116k on $146k limits 80% Util.
Oct 2014 $46k on $127k 36% util EQ 722 TU 727 EX 727
April 2018 $18k on $344k 5% util EQ 806 TU 810 EX 812
Jan 2019 $7.6k on $360k EQ 832 TU 839 EX 831
March 2021 $33k on $312k EQ 796 TU 798 EX 801
May 2021 Paid all Installments and Mortgages, one new Mortgage EQ 761 TY 774 EX 777
April 2022 EQ=811 TU=807 EX=805 - TU VS 3.0 765
Message 36 of 56
HeavenOhio
Senior Contributor

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points

My Experian report has updated with the aforementioned $400 balance. That FICO 8 is back to 807, which is right where it started.

Message 37 of 56
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points

Congratulations. How much of the TU score was due to aging?
Message 38 of 56
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points


@HeavenOhio wrote:

My Experian report has updated with the aforementioned $400 balance. That FICO 8 is back to 807, which is right where it started.


Nice validation.

 

It appears well established profiles with no open or closed installment loan on file are more sensitive to AZ. As others have said HO likely falls in a thin file category and if there is recent credit, the file would be assigned a (recent credit - thin - aged file) scorecard. Thin credit scorecards are more sensitive to changes in attribute status and recent credit magnifies sensitivity. 850 is still possible based on Ubuntu's posts once the recent credit stigma has passed. However his score was not stable.

 

My hypothesis is revolving only profiles scoring over 800 points may be  receiving a disproportionate number of points from attributes that are associated with revolving account activity. As a result, "no recent revolving activity" would lead to a stronger score response. 

 

Now my DD has a revolving accounts only, thin file - two revolvers to be exact. Her AoOA is 3 years old as are her AoYA and AAoA. Clearly she has no recent credit. She has a nominal score around 760. She still has quite a few revolving account activity points still on the table. Therefore, her point drop if she ever reported AZ is likely to be in the 15 to 20 point range. 

 

Other AZ data points from revolver only files could be insightful.

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 39 of 56
HeavenOhio
Senior Contributor

Re: All cards at zero: –32, –37 points


@Anonymous wrote:
Congratulations. How much of the TU score was due to aging?

These are the apparent TU aging gains.

  • Transunion 04 (FICO 4) Classic: +1 point
  • Transunion 04 (FICO 4) Auto +15 points
  • Transunion 04 (FICO 4) Bankcard: +1 point
  • Transunion FICO 8 Classic: +3 points
  • Transunion FICO 8 Auto: +3 points
  • Transunion FICO 8 Bankcard: +4 points
  • Transunion FICO 9 Classic: 0 points
  • Transunion FICO 9 Auto: 0 points
  • Transunion FICO 9 Bankcard: 0 points

Here's the full list of scores. I'll address the weird ones in another post. Balances were…

  • March 18: $200 on a 7k limit
  • April 1: $44 on the same 7k limit
  • April 8: zero
  • April 12: $400 on a 24k limit

March 18 / April 8 / April 12

Equifax 04 (FICO 5) Classic: 810 / 806 / 810
Transunion 04 (FICO 4) Classic: 807 / 797 / 808
Experian 98 (FICO 2) Classic: 822 / 815 / 822

 

Equifax 04 (FICO 5) Auto: 828 / 825 /828
Transunion 04 (FICO 4) Auto: 794 / 798 / 809
Experian 98 (FICO 2) Auto: 805 / 786 / 805

 

Equifax 04 (FICO 5) Bankcard: 819 / 813 / 817
Transunion 04 (FICO 4) Bankcard: 839 / 827 / 840
Experian 98 (FICO 2) Auto: Bankcard: 842 / 830 / 842

Experian 04 (FICO 3) Bankcard: 813 / 817 / 813

 

Equifax FICO 8 Classic: 815 / 783 / 815
Transunion FICO 8 Classic: 815 (Apr 1) / 778 / 815
Experian FICO 8 Classic: 807 / 782 / 807

 

Equifax FICO 8 Auto: 784 / 751 / 784
Transunion FICO 8 Auto: 818 / 773 / 821
Experian FICO 8 Auto: 789 / 753 / 789

 

Equifax FICO 8 Bankcard: 828 / 796 / 828
Transunion FICO 8 Bankcard: 828 / 790 / 832
Experian FICO 8 Bankcard: 826 / 798 / 826

 

Equifax FICO 9 Classic: 832 / 810 / 832
Transunion FICO 9 Classic: 817 / 794 / 817
Experian FICO 9 Classic: 820 / 798 / 820

 

Equifax FICO 9 Auto: 847 / 824 / 847
Transunion FICO 9 Auto: 825 / 798 / 825
Experian FICO 9 Auto: 834 / 808 / 834

 

Equifax FICO 9 Bankcard: 843 / 816 / 843
Transunion FICO 9 Bankcard: 829 / 805 / 829
Experian FICO 9 Bankcard: 832 / 810 / 832

Message 40 of 56
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