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*FICO is a Scam*

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Anonymous
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*FICO is a Scam*

I want to preface this post with the following:  I made some bad financial choices earlier in life, no bankruptcies, but I did default on a couple of student loans and I got behind paying 2 credit cards and a cable bill that I disputed.  My score hovered around 620-650.  

 

Fast forward 5+ years, I am making considerably more money, my credit utilization is about 15% and I have not missed a single payment in 5+ years.  I recently made a payment to a card of $3k, bringing the balance down to ~$600, I figured I would check my score to see what effect it had.  Guess what, Equifax score dropped 25 points, Transunion and Experian both went up 1 point.  So you may be thinking, "well that large payment actually hurt your score because it shows inconsistency".   However, I consistenly make $2K payments per month. 

 

 

 This piqued my interest so I went and looked back at the previous 2 years worth of credit scores (FICO 8), no missed payments, steady salary increases over that time and my score has basically hovered about 5-10 points in the same range. 

 

Then I checked my FICO 9 score and low and behold every score was higher, ranging from 12 points to 33 points higher.

 

The conundrum (scam) that is FICO, I make a larger than normal payment and I get penalized, I make consistent payments for 2 years and my score hardly moves.

 

Am I really being punished for stuff that either has fallen off my credit report (greater than 7 years) or from stuff that falls into the 5+ years but less than 7 years bucket?  

 

Seems like a credit scoring system should naturally reward people that show a consistent payment pattern, especially over a duration of 5+ years rather than flatlining their score.

 

I would appreciate some feedback and hopefully advice from people that were/are in a similar situation.  Looking to have my mind changed about FICO, but presently I do not see that happening.

 

*Score hovers around 700

**Houshold Income $175K+

****DTI Ratio = 33%

81 REPLIES 81
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: *FICO is a Scam*

Nah! totally disagree... Smiley Indifferent

Message 2 of 82
Anonymous
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Re: *FICO is a Scam*

FICO 9 is available, when lenders choose to use it, you’ll benefit from it. How does that make FICO a “scam?” How about demanding lenders use FICO 9 instead of FICO 8 or whatever else they may be using?
Message 3 of 82
Anonymous
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Re: *FICO is a Scam*

Hello The Wood2311!  Welcome to the forums and I am glad you are with us.

 

You may end up getting responses to your post that you don't intend, based on your word choice in the subject line.  A scam is a form of deliberate fraud -- like a ponzi scheme, or the Nigerian con artists, or when a good looking guy dates lonely older women and takes their money.  It has to involve deliberate deception involved in getting someone to give them your money.  You are not giving FICO any money, so they can't be scamming you.  The banks and CC issuers who do pay them money are pretty happy with the scores they buy from FICO, a company that is very transparent about what the scores can be expected to assist the bank with (assessing risk statistically).

 

I think you may just mean question, puzzle, or enigma -- since you at one point put the word conundrum in parentheses after scam.  People here may miss that and might end up diving down a rabbit hole based on the word scam -- one that perhaps you do not intend. 

 

That said, I think you raise some good questions and I will be glad to respond more in just a bit.  I think your questions have some meaningful answers, but I just wanted to throw this out first.  Hope to write a bit more in the next hour.

Message 4 of 82
Anonymous
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Re: *FICO is a Scam*

A flat credit score over 5 years with an increase in income and duration of time since bad credit behavior....

 

The scam is in FICO preserving the interest of lenders/reporting agencies by making additional money for said lenders off people for bad decisions that realistically have no relevance to present circumstances.  By keeping people's scores low they benefit their employers, seems like a conflict of interest, especially when the time comes to renew a contract with a lender or reporting agency. This may be a false assumption, but I cannot imagine I am the only one experiencing a flat score over 5 years.  Especially, when I come to this website and hear the extreme opposite, boasts of people increasing their scores by 100 points in a year, short of winning the lottery or becoming independently wealthy I don't see how that is possible.  

 

Think about it, do I get to choose the report or score that is used for a transaction?  No, I can shop multiple lenders and use the one that is giving the best rate, but that still does not guarantee that they are using my highest score or that I am getting the best rate.  FICO or any scoring company should not favor lenders or borrowers, but rather be an impartial judge to provide information to both parties. 

Message 5 of 82
Anonymous
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Re: *FICO is a Scam*

Income is not a factor that is figured into FICO scoring at all.  The fact that your income now may be significantly greater than it was 5 years ago has no bearing at all on your scores.

 

As for making large payments and expecting your score to increase, it all depends on percentages and threshold crossings, not dollars.  It's very important to understand this, otherwise you'll drive yourself mad.

 

Cornelius may make a $450 credit card payment and see his score increase 80 points.

 

Rupert may make a $7000 credit card payment and see his score increase 0 points.

 

Those pieces of information without profile data to go along with them may seem puzzling.  What you may not know is that Cornelius only has one credit card with a $500 limit.  He had a balance of $490 (maxed out) and paid it down to $40 (less than 8.9% of limit which is ideal).  Regarding Rupert, you didn't know that he paid down his $40,000 credit card that had an $11,000 balance to $4000.  In doing so, he crossed no utilization threshold on that card and he also has a bunch of other high limit cards, so his aggregate (overall) utilization barely budged as well.  This is why he gained 0 points from making a $7000 payment, where Cornelius gained 80 points from paying a payment less than 1/10 that size.

Message 6 of 82
Anonymous
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Re: *FICO is a Scam*

OP - As you accurately point out, you can shop around and choose any lender you wish, or none at all if you wish. The lenders choose what available products they want just as you do as long as they comply with law and regulation. As you may or may not know, lenders are highly regulated and governed by a literal plethora of laws. They are some lenders who use FICO 9, and you may want to shop around for them and give them your business, that’s how capitalism works. There is no system where the borrower demands or dictates what score or scoring system is used for them as a borrower. Whether you are similarly situated to compare yourself to others you’ve seen here making triple digit improvements to their scores is nearly impossible to say in the limited statistics you’ve provided. Additionally, there are so many additional variables that come into play that no two borrowers are exactly alike. While we share data and try to identify trends and calculate laymen’s odds, we are just making the most educated guess we can since any lender has an algorithm and/or human element that cannot fully be accounted for. While I can empathize with your obvious frustration, I believe you are directing it in the wrong place. This is very much more of a philosophical discussion than one that can or will be resolved with frustration and accusations. I do wish you luck and hope that some of my more leaned and articulate forum users and/moderators can provide you the answers and/or guidance that will satisfy you.
Message 7 of 82
Anonymous
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Re: *FICO is a Scam*

Again, good questions.  My thoughts/answers in blue below.

 

Am I really being punished for stuff that either has fallen off my credit report (greater than 7 years)...?

 

No.  If something has fallen off your report, it cannot affect your score.  The score is generated purely based on what is in your report.  (This is also why your increasing income hasn't helped your score, since a person's income is not part of his credit report.)

 

.... or from stuff that falls into the 5+ years but less than 7 years bucket?  

 

Yes.  For sure.  Negative items (lates, collections, chargeoffs, liens, judgments, public records, etc.) can hurt your score a lot, assuming they appear on your report. 

 

I consistenly make $2K payments per month.... Seems like a credit scoring system should naturally reward people that show a consistent payment pattern...

 

Throughout almost all of FICO's history the three credit bureaus have not collected payment history.  They have recorded whether a creditor claims you are 30 days or more late on a payment, but not the amount you paid, or the dates.  You could be paying your cards in full every month for the last five years and FICO would not be able to distinguish that from a person who never paid in full and was often up to 29 days late.

 

A few years ago with the advent of something called "trended data" it looked like this might change.  Future credit scoring models, using these new data, would be able to do exactly what you expect -- see how much you are paying, when you paid it, and compare that with how much your CC bills were each month.  It would have enabled scoring models to improve their accuracy while enabling customers to not worry about their credit.

 

Unfortunately the many credit card issuers out there have not gotten on the TD bandwagon (in terms of what they report to the three bureaus) and until they do, the big FICO models can't use those better approaches, since FICO can only use the data it gets in your report.

 

Final thoughts:

If your concerns are chiefly practical, you are in luck.  Any number of people here can lay out some very actionable strategies on how you can improve your scores, whether FICO 8, FICO 9, or the much older mortgage scores.  They'll need to know a lot more about exactly what is on your reports, but once they do know, improving your scores should be pretty easy.

 

Message 8 of 82
trusty
Frequent Contributor

Re: *FICO is a Scam*

It's okay to be frustrated that it takes at least 7 years for derogatory items to fall off. But, the score model itself is certainly not to blame.

Blame your significant other or others, for mismanaging your finances... if that's what happened.

Otherwise, be proactive and find novel ways to dispute the veracity of any remaining unpaid derogatory items.

Unfortunately, paying old lates is not the way to improve your score. Rather, the key is too never let negatives show up, in the first place. Or, to get any negatives completely stricken from your reports. Easier said than done, of course.

At this point, the best option you have is probably writing goodwill letters to the executive offices of whomever it is that you're paying 2k a month to.

Otherwise, just wait a couple more years to buy that house, or whatever. Take the previous 7 years as a lesson learned.

P.S. Being in a such a hurry to get back into debt - and blaming the system - sounds to me like the scoring algorithm probably had it right the first time.

Ultimately, the scoring model doesn't care whether you're poor or a high earner. If you're not good with managing your finances... it doesn't matter how much money you make.
Message 9 of 82
Anonymous
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Re: *FICO is a Scam*


@trustyUltimately, the scoring model doesn't care whether you're poor or a high earner. If you're not good with managing your finances... it doesn't matter how much money you make.

100% correct.  It's like when people ask how Mike Tyson went broke when he earned $296M.  Simple.  Spend $298M.

Message 10 of 82
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