Fico9 vs Fico8 - why such a huge difference?

[dragontears]

Could you please post a screen shot of your FICO 9 scores and their negative reason codes? 

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@anik28 wrote:

snapshot of current Fico 8 scores 

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[Slabenstein]

Have you had any lates or derogatories in the last 24 mo's other than the medical collection?  I'm not sure what kind of score increase you would see on 8 or 9 after the two PFD'd collections are removed; you might see an increase on TU9 since you'll be at zero scorable collections there, w/ comparable increases on EX9 & EQ9 in June, but you would still have the CO's holding down your score so I'm not sure.  @Anonymous  knows a lot more about CO's and CA's than I do, so maybe she can give you a better idea.

If the 9's on your MyFICO give 1/28/21 as their pull dates, then they're current.  FICO9 and FICO8 scores generate from the same CRA data, so one is as up to date as the other if they have the same pull date.

If your current 9's are a barrier to approval w/ the lenders that use that version, you can check this list of lenders and the score versions and bureaus they're known to pull so you can strategize your apping and not burn HPs.

Since those are your FICO8 score ingredients posted above, it's very interesting that you have "Exceptional" credit mix; how to achieve that is something the community has been debating for a while.  CO's and CA's aside, the only tradelines you have on your EX report are revolvers and your student loans, correct?

[Anonymous]

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@Slabenstein wrote:

Assuming 12 of the 13 FICO9 scorecards are the same as 8's, I think you'd be on on dirty/PR/mature w/ 67% highest individual util, 55% agg util, 3/5 accounts w/ a bal, one unpaid CO, four collections, and some number of 3+ yr old lates of some severity.  You don't have any installment loans, correct?  Unfortunately, the only thing I know about 9 that's relevant to what you've listed here is that it doesn't count medical collections where 8 does, which would be a positive for you and doesn't help explain why your 9's are lower.  The main negatives in your reports are ofc the PRs and relatively high util, as well as possibly the lates, so it could be that the 9 algo's take a dimmer view of one or more of those things, but I don't know for sure.  If the CO is still updating, that might be making it a "recent" derog.  @Anonymous  and other score experts, does anything here stand out to anyone?

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@Slabenstein I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but the first thing I notice is: are those really collections or are they chargeoffs? And where is the corresponding OC chargeoff? Also version 9 does count medical collections, it simply weights them less. 

[Anonymous]

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@anik28 wrote:

Maybe when the 2 collection accounts are removed, that will have a huge impact. It's showing my last late as 18+ months ago, which is in line of when the medical collection was added to my report.  Here are the age of all my accounts as well:

Current & Active Accounts

MOHELA Student Loans - Opened 2017 & 2018 (Around 15K balance. All 100% payments) 

Capital One QS - Opened Nov 2018.($240/500CL)

Credit One - Opened Nov 2019 (0 Balance/300CL)

Nordstrom - Opened December 2019 ($825/1500CL)

Indigo Card - Opened Feb 2020 ($200/300CL)

US Bank Secured - Opened April 2020 (0 Balance/300CL)

C/O Accounts

Santander Auto (Opened June 2014 / C/O Dec 2014) 9000$ owed

Citibank (Opened April 2015, C/0 April 2017) $344 owed 

Collection Accounts 

Grant Mercantile (Medical) - Opened Sept 2018 ($800 owed)

Cach LLC (Old Nordstrom) - Opened June 2014 (has been settled for deletion)

Credit One Bank (LVNV Funding) - Opened Nov 2017 (has been settled for deletion)

Santander Auto (Removed from TU in 2020. Removal from EQ & EX June 2021) 

Closed Accounts 

Discover Secured Card (Paid in full, 0$ balance) 1000$ CL - I closed this because they put me on a payment plan and locked my use of the card. Closed in 2018

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@anik28 OK this post laid out the collections and chargeoffs better. Know that removing collections isn't really going to help your score much until you remove the very last one and then you'll see a nice increase.

Also the versions are not updated separately. The credit report data is updated and then the algorithms run and generate the scores from that data. 

[Anonymous]

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@Slabenstein wrote:

Have you had any lates or derogatories in the last 24 mo's other than the medical collection?  I'm not sure what kind of score increase you would see on 8 or 9 after the two PFD'd collections are removed; you might see an increase on TU9 since you'll be at zero scorable collections there, w/ comparable increases on EX9 & EQ9 in June, but you would still have the CO's holding down your score so I'm not sure.  @Anonymous  knows a lot more about CO's and CA's than I do, so maybe she can give you a better idea.

If the 9's on your MyFICO give 1/28/21 as their pull dates, then they're current.  FICO9 and FICO8 scores generate from the same CRA data, so one is as up to date as the other if they have the same pull date.

If your current 9's are a barrier to approval w/ the lenders that use that version, you can check this list of lenders and the score versions and bureaus they're known to pull so you can strategize your apping and not burn HPs.

Since those are your FICO8 score ingredients posted above, it's very interesting that you have "Exceptional" credit mix; how to achieve that is something the community has been debating for a while.  CO's and CA's aside, the only tradelines you have on your EX report are revolvers and your student loans, correct?

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@Slabenstein Lol, A collection is an account type. That's why I previously said having one of every type is not necessarily beneficial.

[Anonymous]

@anik28 a question, do you have any loan modifications on your credit report?

[anik28]

@Slabenstein interesting to know that even removing two CA's won't help me much, until I get them all off. I guess waiting out the deletion date is going to be the real bump. That's a bit painful because the medical collection will likely not delete even if I pay, I can try. That one will not remove until 2024/25 which is going to hurt for a long time, being that most other negatives will be long gone by then. 

all I have are revolving accounts and student loans (installment) I don't have a mortgage, auto loan or any other type of loan. I'm holding off on purchasing a car until I clean this mess up; especially until the old repossession falls off this summer. 

[anik28]

@Anonymous I do not. Like mentioned above, all I have are the revolving credit cards and student loans. I have nothing to refinance as I do not own a home or a car. I'm in my late twenties and made mistakes with credit in my early 20's - I didn't even have a chance to think about a car purchase or home purchase because of the damage done. My goal is by 30 to have much of this in line, which I think is completely doable. I'm just very concerned about these Fico 9 scores being so low. It seems like I'd have to get my Fico 8 scores close to 700 to even get the Fico9's to low / mid 600's if the logic is what I'm seeing now. 

Thanks for all the help!

[Anonymous]

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@anik28 wrote:

@Anonymous I do not. Like mentioned above, all I have are the revolving credit cards and student loans. I have nothing to refinance as I do not own a home or a car. I'm in my late twenties and made mistakes with credit in my early 20's - I didn't even have a chance to think about a car purchase or home purchase because of the damage done. My goal is by 30 to have much of this in line, which I think is completely doable. I'm just very concerned about these Fico 9 scores being so low. It seems like I'd have to get my Fico 8 scores close to 700 to even get the Fico9's to low / mid 600's if the logic is what I'm seeing now. 

Thanks for all the help!

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@anik28 no problem that's what we're here for. But you have student loans, is it possible you have a loan modification entry on any of those? The reason I ask is, version 9 considers that derogatory where version 8 does not. That could account for the disparity.

also be aware that medical collections are treated less harshly by version 9, in a special category of their own. So therefore you will probably see an increase if you get rid of all collections other than the medical collection. Also further good news:

Version 9 ignores paid collections. So paying collections on version 8 does not increase score unless all collections over $100 are deleted, but on version 9, once it's paid it no longer counts against you. 😉

so you want your version 9 to go up? Pay the collection. Get PFDs on everyone you can to help your version 8, and pay the remaining one to help your version 9! There's a game plan for you!

[anik28]

@dragontears see reasons. It says I have high credit usage but I just paid 2 of my cards to 0, those have not yet reported for the monthly cycle. Also negative items are listed, which would probably be the collections and c/o accounts.