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Frustrating score changes

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MrsCHX
Valued Contributor

Frustrating score changes

I know, I know, getting out of debt >>> scores. I'll have all my credit card debt paid in full by September. 

But, seeing +0 for paying off $1k of debt but -5 for a $111 balance reporting on a card is infuriating lol!!

 

I bought something for my grandson and no biggie, went to pay in full but the payment did not post to Amazon before the statement cut. So I know it's related to util but still, annoying!! 

 

Capital One Savor: $6,000; Mission Lane: $4,500; PenFed Power Cash Rewards: $3,500; Nordstrom Visa: $3,300; Capital One: $2,550; PenFed Gold: $2,500; Credit One: $2,000;
Store Cards: Kohls $2,500; Home Depot: $1,000; Amazon: $350; Target: $900; LOFT: $700
Message 1 of 21
20 REPLIES 20
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Frustrating score changes

Unfortunately that amount posting on the Amazon card took card utilization to 31.7% - over the 29% level that can result in assessment of penalty. If it was any other card, the card UT would be well below 29% and likely no point loss.

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 2 of 21
Realist
Frequent Contributor

Re: Frustrating score changes

I'm a proponent for a higher type of credit line total.  You can have many cards, and while each card does factor into a utlization score individually, your overall utilization will also factor into a FICO score.

 

Here on FICO you can see this first hand in your report, even on creditkarma (I know), and other places, they still tally your credit utilization as a whole - and that's simply for a visual available to you.  Whether that's used as a component of the algorithm no one really knows, but you can speculate. 

 

As an example, if you owe $5000, on a $5000 card and that's all you have at your disposal, that's bad.  If you owe that same $5000 on a $10000 credit card total (across all your credit cards), that's still bad.  But, if you owe $5000 across a grand total of $500,000 in credit line totals, you are realisitically only using 1% of your total credit line, even if that one card among many, is grossly over ultilized.  That all factors into the utilization score.  For those that don't think it's true, I stand a bit of in disagreement.  People have been in this situation and scores barely flinched.

 

By this logic, someone holding $500k or even one million in credit line totals, can be roaded by something as simple as a Home Depot card.  Using the $4000-$5000 balance they give you, and you spending it on one single home project.  Not unlikely, but it blows the utilization score out of the water on the individual card, but overall utilization still remains less than 1%.  It would otherwise suggest, these meager cards could take down a WELL defined and thick profile, for many points.  I know this isn't true, others know this isn't true.  FICO scores won't likely reflect this when dealing with significant credit line totals.

 

I have an in-law that likes to keep credit cards low, likes to keep totals low.  Stouts his 830+ FICO score, but low credit line total in the grand scheme.  We hold much in lines, playing it well, last FICO scores bounce between 829-844.  The only difference, is utilization scores never matter in our world.  We can't spend enough, and still repay on it, to even matter.  It helps to minimize or eliminate the impact of utilization.

 

My suggesting is to up your credit totals a bit, where utilization will matter less.  You are already doing the credit thing responsibly.

 

 

 

 

$XXX,XXX in credit lines. First digit isn't a one or two.
4-5 weeks in free credit reward vacations, booked through 2028.
$X,XXX in bank rewards in only 12 months.
I like FREE...

800+ FICO.

Making all numbers dance on a financial ledger.
Abuse that score responsibility for maximum gain.
Message 3 of 21
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Frustrating score changes

The OP has nearly $28k in total CL. The $1k paydown represents about 3.5% in aggregate utilization. Likely no score boost because no aggregate UT threshold was crossed.

 

Highest UT for individual cards is an important scoring metric. Two known thresholds that can affect score are 29% and 49% although some use 30% and 50%.

 

The $111 balance is insignificant regarding impact on total (aggregate UT). It is significant for low limit individual cards. I'd suggest the OP focus on increasing CL of low limit cards to $1k so reporting of a couple hundred dollars on such cards won't affect score.

 

Total CL should be a secondary consideration. In fact, the modest total CL can provide a guard rail against excessive spending.

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 4 of 21
MrsCHX
Valued Contributor

Re: Frustrating score changes

Ah!!! I hadn't considered that -- that the overall reduction isn't as impactful, yet. And the $111 reporting on a $350 balances crossed a threshold. 

im waiting for a different card to update because it was at 92% and is now at 42%. 

Capital One Savor: $6,000; Mission Lane: $4,500; PenFed Power Cash Rewards: $3,500; Nordstrom Visa: $3,300; Capital One: $2,550; PenFed Gold: $2,500; Credit One: $2,000;
Store Cards: Kohls $2,500; Home Depot: $1,000; Amazon: $350; Target: $900; LOFT: $700
Message 5 of 21
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Frustrating score changes

Another scoring metric is number of cards reporting balances. There is a penalty for too many accounts with balances. The impact on Fico 8 score is slight, typically 0-10 points depending on profile and % of cards reporting balances.

 

If the Amazon card with a balance previously reported $0 and QTY increased, it could influence score slightly regardless $ amount.

 

Details on before/after aggregate utilization and all card utilizations would be enlightening. I'd certainly anticipate a point gain going from 92% UT on a card to 42%.

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 6 of 21
Zoostation1
Valued Contributor

Re: Frustrating score changes

@RealistUpping totals will help, but it doesn't even have to be all that much given just how low the limit is on the OP's Amazon card.  Nonetheless a low limit per card does sting.  I still consider myself in rebuild mode even though I don't want any additional cards (as far as I'm concerned as long as the BK7 still reports I'm still a rebuilder), but I got pretty excited when I was able to get a $5k card, $10k card and then $20k card.  And while my limits are much lower than yours they're still plenty enough now that I really don't worry about my reported utilization as long as I'm PIF.    Interestingly I looked up the average total credit limit and number of cards per person (according to experian) and it's $29,855 TCL and 3.9 cards.  I'd also like to know the median, but couldn't find that data. I suspect the averages for people who frequent myFICO forums are well above that of the geneneral public.

Rebuild Started Nov 2021
June 2022 FICO 8:
June 2022 FICO 9:
June 2025 FICO 8:
June 2025 FICO 9:
Message 7 of 21
MrsCHX
Valued Contributor

Re: Frustrating score changes

I don't shop at Amazon anymore and they dropped my limit over time to where it rests at $350. I pretty much only use it if my kid/grandkids need something and I'm helping out (they live across the country). So I could probably get Synch to up the limit but I just don't care as much about that one. 

in my prior life I had $25k with NFCU and $10k with Disco and $15k with AMEX and and and and. I just don't care about huge limits anymore because it entices me to spend. I won't get into the reasons for my current balances but while the overspending isn't an issue now, I'm just not into the "game" anymore. 

I'll be closing a few of the existing lines and will make life work with Capital One and PenFed. And gotta have my Target card. Lol!

Capital One Savor: $6,000; Mission Lane: $4,500; PenFed Power Cash Rewards: $3,500; Nordstrom Visa: $3,300; Capital One: $2,550; PenFed Gold: $2,500; Credit One: $2,000;
Store Cards: Kohls $2,500; Home Depot: $1,000; Amazon: $350; Target: $900; LOFT: $700
Message 8 of 21
FicoMike0
Valued Contributor

Re: Frustrating score changes

Modebly frustrating. Sync is getting famous for cutting limits. As far as not shopping Amazon, I don't love them either, but sometimes they are the best choice. Still, you don't have to use an Amazon card at Amazon. I was using nfcu flagship, who paid for annual prime membership. I just switched to USB shoppers, I made Amazon one of my 6% stores.

 

Message 9 of 21
FICOdawg
Contributor

Re: Frustrating score changes

My personal situation will bear this out in data.    Going to be able to see direct impact of my total and individual utilization as I continue to pay down my card.      Waiting for my next update from Experian to see impact of scenario you mention.      Paid off 2 out of 3 card and about 78% utilization on last card to pay off.    Will be interesting data points coming up for me.

 

The question to answer is does total or individual utilization count more?         You would think there would be a weighting factor so a small CL card doesn't sink the entire ship as in OPs case.   

Message 10 of 21
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