Inquiry Master Thread - understanding inquiries and how the affect your credit score

[Anonymous]

Hey Bird,

-Squeaky clean file. No lates, no collections or PRs, no derogs of any sort.

-Single pull from EX.

-0 INQs on EQ, 6 on TU. All TU are CLI related; 1 was a EX+TU double pull by Chase in Dec '19.

-Oldest account is 21.5 Y. 14 open accounts, 10 closed. AoYA is 3M. No loans.

I expected a 5 point haircut, not 7. Perhaps it was the 4->5 tripwire. All EX INQs are since Dec '19; not sure if time was a factor.

[Anonymous]

@Anonymous Do you recall your point losses for the first 4?

Ok you are on a Clean/thick/aged/New Account scorecard. Same as me, lol. You don't even have a closed loan on file? If not, I'd expect yours to be just slightly more reactive.

[Anonymous]

Hi Cassie,

Per your question on FICO mortgage score impact:

-For me with my most recent INQ for Discover, it was a 7 point change for both FICO*2 and FICO*8.

Hope that helps.  Once I see the INQ reported by TU and EQ, I will report any score change on F*2 and F*8.

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I will include mortgage scores once I have them. Score changes seem slow to report this weekend.

That's great. That's more interesting to me than the F8 changes, which mostly seem to be a no-op on aged profiles like yours.

I have also been surprised to note the time between updates between service providers.

For me, Experian is fastest to report and update scores and MyFico is 1-4 days later.

I've been using FICO Premier (monthly 3B) for over a year now. This has been my experience as well.

My credit union Mastercard usually closes on the 2nd of each month and I will see an alert to the updated balance on TU only around 7 days later. EQ/EX are within 2 days. Citi Visa closed on the 4th and I saw myFICO alerts for all 3 CRAs on or before the 7th.

I am curious as to what others have noted from their experience on the difference between actual event time (the inquiry) and when it is reported and scored. It seems that some systems are closer to real time and others are batch jobs, or or batch jobs with a manual or delayed review and commit process. My observation is that changes which occur near or during weekends are either not processed, not reported or not committed until weekdays. Perhaps it is unique to my experience, but I cannot clearly explain the delays in when changes are reported. 

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I have statement closings between the 1st and 5th each month. I wait to pull the included monthly 3B until the 10th, just to make sure everything is updated at myFICO. It's usually all updated on the 8th or 9th.

On 02/13, I had an inquiry from AMEX. (New AMEX BCE card.)

On 02/14, I had an inquiry from Discover. (New Discover It Cash Back card.)

The following was received on 02/16. My myFICO alerts always have a date that is 1 day behind when I receive them.

Experian's free (Basic) membership sent me alerts within 30 minutes of each app.

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[Anonymous]

Hi Bird,

Sorry, I was thinking only of current loans. I do have 3 closed loans on file:

-1 mortgage closed in '19

-2 auto loans, closed in '11 and '12

[Anonymous]

We're in the same boat then.

[Anonymous]

I skimmed to see if this was addressed but didnt see anything.

Since a lender can see the exact same info in a soft inquiry as they do a hard inquiry, the part about "not detailed look" is not accurate.

Soft inquiries occur when you review your own credit record, or in some cases when a lender takes a brief but not detailed look at your credit for a credit line increase.

[Anonymous]

Depends on the type of SP. If Citi calls EX and says I want 10,000 profiles meeting this criteria, they just get name and addy basically. (Promotional SP for marketing.)

But if its an AR (annual review) or pre-qual, I believe they see it all, except the Fraud Telephone number which requires a HP.

And I think I mentioned it upthread, too, post #7. Good catch.

[Anonymous]

Hi Morpho and Birdman,

The matter of distinguishing characteristics and mechanisms that trigger and code the difference of a hard v soft INQs remains open in my mind.

Is there a:

-data difference, that is, is there more sensitive data or information in a hard v soft inq?

-process difference, that is, is who makes the request for credit the determining factor of hard or soft?

-policy difference, that is, is it a discretionary determination that is guided by policies of a credit issuer?

A case in point: I have several Chase cards. If:

-you request a CLI, the cost for your request if a hard INQ (maybe 2!).  

-Chase decides to grant you a CLI, there may be a soft INQ, but not a hard INQ.

BOA and Citi do not charge you a hard INQ for CLI requests. Chase and Barclays do. That sounds like a policy difference, not a data difference.

But is there a data difference between them or not?

I have researched it, including contacting folks in credit to try and get a very definitive and provable answer.  To date, I have found more opinions than facts about the distinguishing difference.

Some suggest the data difference between hard v soft is contact information (phone number and/or email). Really? Maybe...

The fact that hard INQs affects one's credit record, and by extension, one's credit score, would strongly suggest that there are true substantive differences between them.

I have finally located a highly knowledgable resource that can (able to) provide me with a very specific answer.  As soon as I have the answer and the associated detials, I will indeed share it here.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hi Morpho and Birdman,

The matter of distinguishing characteristics and mechanisms that trigger and code the difference of a hard v soft INQs remains open in my mind.

Is there a:

-data difference, that is, is there more sensitive data or information in a hard v soft inq?

-process difference, that is, is who makes the request for credit the determining factor of hard or soft?

-policy difference, that is, is it a discretionary determination that is guided by policies of a credit issuer?

We also need to keep in mind that these hard/soft inquiries for CLIs are to obtain data that other lenders have reported. The requesting lender can probably already tell what time of day you like to buy a bagel with that cup of coffee (Level 3 data).

They could make the decision internally on their own, but would like to see if you already have a bunch of cards with high utilization, for example.

[Anonymous]

Its like this, there are several different classification codes for SPs. Depending on that code determines data disclosed, I believe.

As I said, if Citi wants 10,000 profiles that fit a certain criteria to send marketing to, they buy it from the CRA and it is a SP, but the info is limited to name and address, ect.. IIRC, They do not get a full data pull, just certification it met the parameters requested, e.g. 740+ EX8, there are many parameters they can choose from probably.

Now, totally different when your existing lender SPs you. They use a AR code and receive all the data, I believe.

If you seek a pre-qualification, it uses a code and I believe the data is given.

What data is given depends upon the code used for the SP. Citi wanting to send you a solicitation doesn't need all your data until you apply. On the other hand, your CCC does to feel comfy with your account.

Now about the fraud alert. Whenever you place a fraud alert on your file, it requires the lender to contact you prior to extending credit. The required contact number is not given in SPs. So, if you have a fraud alert, a lender must HP to get the "designated" number for you to establish contact and verify identity, understand?

Why do some companies, like Citi, offer a SP CLI, but its an HP if you want more? Because you are credit-seeking and it rises to the level, where Citi (or whomever), wants to make their mark known that credit was sought. This serves to place other potential lenders on notice, which can slow your roll, if you are trying to accumulate a great deal of credit too quickly.

Make sense now?