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Inquiry Master Thread - understanding inquiries and how the affect your credit score

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FAMUGrad2001
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Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score

if a lender gets the same info from a soft pull as they would a hard pull .... why do a hard pull?

Starting Score: 545
Current Score: 656
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Message 71 of 113
Anonymous
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Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score


@FAMUGrad2001 wrote:

if a lender gets the same info from a soft pull as they would a hard pull .... why do a hard pull?


Hey @FAMUGrad2001,

 

I cannot say that this is definitively true, but my evidence is strongly suggesting that HP v SP decision is just that -  a decision on the part of the issuer. They can choose to code it as either a HP or SP. They can choose to use 1, 2 or 3 bureaus.

 

I was on a trail with an inside expert at a top card company just before the COVID matter hit the wall, and I am unable to confirm how the decisioning happens.  I still hope to gather that answer within the next 30 days.  That said...

 

Why is it that some card companies charge you a HP for a CLI, and others do not. Why do some charge you 2 HPs for a CLI, and others 0.

 

I used to believe that the bureaus made the decision. They do not.  The card company does.

 

I do not how how a traditional bank or auto lender determines the inquiry code, and whether they can even make that decision. I believe it is a large bank control and marketing matter.  That is one guys opinion.  I hope to have a more specific answer soon, as well as understanding tools or terms can help influence that HP v SP decision.

 

Right how, my answer is a big-fat-I-do-not-know-maybe.

 

There are very smart and wise people on these forums. Perhaps one with more detail can give us all a deeper look under the HP SP cloak.

 

Message 72 of 113
Anonymous
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Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score

The simple answer is to leave their mark and let it be known that credit was issued. Therefore if another lender does due diligence, they are going to be able to uncover your credit seeking behavior. It’s really that simple it doesn’t offer the issuer any other benefit to make it a hard pull, it simply makes their mark known so other lenders may be cautious in extending further credit.

And @Anonymous 10 points is about right, you crossed 2 individual thresholds and no aggregate thresholds, 29% and 49%.

 

And yes when TT is kind enough to talk, definitely listen. He has a tremendous amount of knowledge. I've learned a great deal from his posts myself and I'm very grateful.

Message 73 of 113
Anonymous
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Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score

EQ just reported a large payment that reduced my total UT to 3%. The score increase was only 7 points, but that increase helps me set a new score high for EQ.

 

EQ and TU report the new account this week. I will incur no INQ penalty on EQ or TU, but I anticipate a new account penalty from both.

 

FWIW, I will report the score impact analysis on all 3 bureaus including the imputed INQ penalty on EX once I have all of the data.

Message 74 of 113
Anonymous
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Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score

Hey  @Birdman7 @Thomas_Thumb @BrutalBodyShots,

 

Scores increase 12 months after opening a new account. I have read that some posters claim the score increase is due to the account reaching 12 months of age. Others claim the score increase is due to the HP becoming unscorable.

 

Are score increases at 12 months after opening (burean dependent; precisely 12 months, or the 1st of the month following), attributable to:

-AoYA / AoYRA reaching the 12 month mark, or

-HP becoming no longer scorable, or

-Both?

 

I have come to realize that other factors (scorecard change, binning, AAoA, et al) can occur at the same time, and thereby distort the points gained at the anniversary event. Assuming no other coincident events occur, what is the correct way to think about and prepare for the 1st birthday party for a new account and associated HP?

 

Thank you.

Message 75 of 113
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score


@Anonymous wrote:

Hey  @Birdman7 @Thomas_Thumb @BrutalBodyShots,

 

Are score increases at 12 months after opening (burean dependent; precisely 12 months, or the 1st of the month following), attributable to:

-AoYA / AoYRA reaching the 12 month mark, or

-HP becoming no longer scorable, or

-Both?

Here's proof that score increases happen on the 1st due to aging alone (AoYA or AoYRA 1yr 0mo in this case):

This is an EX only, clean/young/thin file report at AoOA 2yr / AoYA 1yr.

Using Experian full daily reports, from 11/30/19 to 12/01/19.

 

Then came further increases when the 1 inq at EX, from 12/23/18, aged to 1 year on 12/23/19.

Message 76 of 113
Anonymous
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Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score

As inspired by the old MasterCard commercials...

 

Total annual cost of MyFICO membership...........................................$360

Increase in total credit lines over past year...................................$100,000

Average increase in score points since I began using MyFico..............125

 

Wisdom and value gained from members of FicoForums............priceless

 

Thank you for helping me become much smarter about credit and scoring.

 

Message 77 of 113
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score


@Anonymous wrote:

Hey  @Birdman7 @Thomas_Thumb @BrutalBodyShots,

 

Scores increase 12 months after opening a new account. I have read that some posters claim the score increase is due to the account reaching 12 months of age. Others claim the score increase is due to the HP becoming unscorable.

 

Are score increases at 12 months after opening (burean dependent; precisely 12 months, or the 1st of the month following), attributable to:

-AoYA / AoYRA reaching the 12 month mark, or

-HP becoming no longer scorable, or

-Both?

 

I have come to realize that other factors (scorecard change, binning, AAoA, et al) can occur at the same time, and thereby distort the points gained at the anniversary event. Assuming no other coincident events occur, what is the correct way to think about and prepare for the 1st birthday party for a new account and associated HP?

 

Thank you.


@Anonymous there is no imputing anything to EX, the HP ding (if not binned), occurred when you applied. The new account and average age (if applicable) change will occur when it reports.

 

Cassie pretty much cleared it up. They are separate.  When the youngest revolver is 12 months of age, on the first, you get your points back from the new account penalty (this is from Scorecard reassignment). HP points come back 365 days later, separately. 

Message 78 of 113
Anonymous
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Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score

Inquiry lab rat, checking in with a personal story.  Some may find the chart below to be useful to explain the impact to your credit score from inquiries (INQs) and new accounts.

 

The 'new credit' category for credit score has 2 main parts: inquiries and new accounts. The weighting and sensitivity of each depends on a number of factors, including your scorecard assignment (search on that term is it is new to you; scorecards are very important to your score).

 

The data below is from my credit report and score. The data are all from Experian (EX), taken directly from their credit score tool and credit reports.

 

Date columns should read: 11/2017            11/2018                                     

Screen Shot 2020-04-18 at 10.51.58 AM.png

 

Background to explain this chart:

 

11/2017 column 

In the fall of 2017, I became a little more knowledgable and a lot more confident about my credit, largely due to this forum with help from several other. That increased confidence (combined with my slight knowledge increase in credit scoring) led me to go shopping....I went on an app spree.

 

In September 2017, my EX score was 700. Not great, but not terrible. Between mid September and mid October 2017, I applied and was approved for 5 cards, which added 75K in CL. I had 3 prior scoreable INQs on my credit report. I also had an account listed as a chargeoff on my credit report. It was an error. I knew it and searched hard for ways to prove it.

 

Following my app spree, my score dropped from 700 to 680.

 

I had been battling for over 2 years with the collection company and the original organization to have the reported chargeoff removed. I finally uncovered a documented record that proved it was an error. I searched these boards for how to approach the matter. Once I had a solid plan, I went back to the collection agency and indicated that I had direct evidence. They connected me with the original organization. By January 2018, we worked out the retraction of their claim with the collection agency, and they promptly removed the error. My score jumped 100 points.

 

11/2018 column

I remained in the garden during all of 2018. No new applications. No new accounts. Every bill was paid in full and on time. Utilization remained below 10%.

 

I did not then have the level of knowledge that I do have now about the inner workings of credit reports and credit scores, but I knew my score would be better. The 100 point bump, in combination with my new insights, changed my psyche about checking my score . I used to check it with a grumble. By early 2018, I began checking my score with a smile. My 680 had risen to a 780, and I hoped that it would increase more as September, October and November approached.

 

I anxiously awaited the 1 year mark for both INQs to fall off and accounts to achieve their 12 months / 1 year of age. In early October my score went up 5 points. Then in late October, 7 more points. By mid November, all of my accounts were now out of the 'new' category, and all INQs became unscoreable. My score cracked through 800, and kept on rising. The total increase was of INQs becoming unscoreable and all accounts reporting paid as agreed, my score had increases 35 points to 815. Sweet!

 

What I learned

Reflecting back on the journey from 2017 to now, I realized my knowledge related to credit and credit score improved. A lot. My understanding and management of my credit has increased from the level of a kindergartener (I did not know what I did not know) to that of a grad school student (I know what I know, I know that I do not know it all, and I have the desire to continue to learn more).

 

Some of the points that I learned along the way:

  • No. More. App. Sprees. The immediate complications and consequences are not worth the momentary thrill of being approved.
  • Apping is not a sport. Pick well. Apply only after you have given careful thought to which cards you REALLY want and need.
  • INQs are scratches. New accounts are cuts. Together, they represent a credit iceberg - there are hidden effects that do damage which are less obvious.  New accounts have multiple consequences to your credit file: scorecard change, age of youngest account, average age of accounts, additional spend and use requirements. Additional new credit implications:
    • More credit MAY lead you to spend more that you should. Avoid complicating your life if you cannot control your spending.
    • New accounts mean more matters that require attention: more payments, more payment dates, utilization considerations, etc.
    • More passwords (data security guy here: 1 ACCOUNT, 1 PASSWORDS; SUPER HARD PASSWORD IF YOU STORE CARDS IN YOUR PHONE)
    • Which cards go in your wallet vs sock drawer; if you are thinking about sock drawer when you app, do you really need to app?
    • Read a lot and think a lot before you do a lot. Unwinding bad decisions is a long and hard path. As in golf, surgery and love, it is best to avoid mistakes.

Credit is wonderful tool. Without knowledge and discipline, credit is also a dangerous tool.  There are very wise folks who willingly contribute their knowledge and experience here for free.  Listen and learn, and you will love your credit life.

Message 79 of 113
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Inquiry Master Thread - demystifying hard inquiries and their effect on your credit score

@Anonymousexcellent report but fix the date on your columns!

 

Also one more note to add to your knowledge. When you open multiple accounts in a short period of time there's an additional penalty on some versions. You will see a negative reason code many new accounts. It has been theorized it's a 90 day window, but I can't state that conclusively.

 

I believe I have seen it on EX2, I don't know when it goes away. A year, 18 months? IDK. 

Oh yeah one more suggestion, you may want to amend the name of the thread. Might wanna remove "hard" since we've covered both soft and hard inquiries.

Message 80 of 113
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