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MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory

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Aahz
Established Contributor

MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory

Thr primary purpose of this post is to provide datapoints for the "forum FICO scientists". However, there is also a question/theory/observation at the end that I believe is worthy of discussion.

_________________________________________________________
MyFICO 3B Report 3/11/16--

 

Payment History: Perfect - No lates or derogs of any kind

Utility -- 14%
Oldest Account -- 17 Years, 9 Months
AAoA -- 4 Years, 10 Months (TU) / 4 Years, 6 Months (EQ, EX)
Installment Loans -- 4 Open w/ 76% total utility, 5 Closed (EQ/TU) / 7 Closed (EX) (No mortgages)
Revolving -- 14 Open (5 w/ balance, 2 @ >30%), 9 Closed (EQ/TU) / 7 Closed (EX)
New(?) Credit:
- 3 months: 3 cards
- 6 months: 3 cards (inclusive)
- 12 months: 11 cards & 1 installment (inclusive)
- 24 months: 17 cards & 1 installment (inclusive)

 

Equifax - 6 inq in 1 year (2 in 3 mos / 2 in 6 mos (inclusive))
FICO® 08 -- 743
FICO® Auto 08 -- 753
FICO® Bankcard 08 -- 742


FICO® 05 -- 734
FICO® Auto 05 -- 712
FICO® Bankcard 05 -- 720


FICO® 09 -- 750
FICO® Auto 09 -- 755
FICO® Bankcard 09 -- 747

 

Experian - 9 inq in 1 year (3 in 3 mos / 3 in 6 mos (inclusive))
FICO® 08 -- 727
FICO® Auto 08 -- 715
FICO® Bankcard 08 -- 733


FICO® 02 -- 722
FICO® Auto 02 -- 717
FICO® Bankcard 02 -- 692


FICO® 09 -- 724
FICO® Auto 09 -- 720
FICO® Bankcard 09 -- 722
FICO® 03 -- 705

 

Transunion - 6 inq in 1 year (0 in 3 mos / 1 in 6 mos (inclusive))
FICO® 08 -- 753
FICO® Auto 08 -- 745
FICO® Bankcard 08 -- 753


FICO® 04 -- 747
FICO® Auto 04 -- 712
FICO® Bankcard 04 -- 723


FICO® 09 -- 739
FICO® Auto 09 -- 741
FICO® Bankcard 09 -- 736

 

Differences between reports not noted above-
- EQ 2 Closed Child Support (as Revolvers)
- EX 2 Closed Child Support (as Installment)
- TU 1 Closed Child Support (as Revolver) & 1 Closed Credit Card
_________________________________________________________


_________________________________________________________
MyFICO 3B Report 6/13/16--

 

Payment History: Perfect - No lates or derogs of any kind

Utility -- 15%
Oldest Account -- 18 Years
AAoA -- 4 Years, 6 Months (TU) / 4 Years, 4 Months (EQ, EX)
Installment Loans -- 4 Open w/ 72% total utility, 5 Closed (EQ/TU) / 7 Closed (EX) (No mortgages)
Revolving -- 16 Open (6 w/ balance, 3 @ >30%), 10 Closed (EQ/TU) / 8 Closed (EX)
New(?) Credit:
- 3 months: 4 cards
- 6 months: 6 cards (inclusive)
- 12 months: 8 cards & 1 installment (inclusive)
- 24 months: 20 cards & 1 installment (inclusive)

 

Equifax - 4 inq in 1 year (0 in 3 mos / 1 in 6 mos (inclusive))
FICO® 08 -- 737
FICO® Auto 08 -- 744
FICO® Bankcard 08 -- 739


FICO® 05 -- 725
FICO® Auto 05 -- 705
FICO® Bankcard 05 -- 706


FICO® 09 -- 743
FICO® Auto 09 -- 747
FICO® Bankcard 09 -- 740

 

Experian - 6 inq in 1 year (2 in 3 mos / 4 in 6 mos (inclusive))
FICO® 08 -- 719
FICO® Auto 08 -- 705
FICO® Bankcard 08 -- 724


FICO® 02 -- 725
FICO® Auto 02 -- 699
FICO® Bankcard 02 -- 692


FICO® 09 -- 712
FICO® Auto 09 -- 706
FICO® Bankcard 09 -- 708


FICO® 03 -- 699

 

Transunion - 5 inq in 1 year (2 in 3 mos / 2 in 6 mos (inclusive))
FICO® 08 -- 744
FICO® Auto 08 -- 743
FICO® Bankcard 08 -- 747


FICO® 04 -- 754
FICO® Auto 04 -- 713
FICO® Bankcard 04 -- 731


FICO® 09 -- 741
FICO® Auto 09 -- 735
FICO® Bankcard 09 -- 739

 

Differences between reports not noted above-
- EQ 2 Closed Child Support (as Revolvers)
- EX 2 Closed Child Support (as Installment)
- TU 1 Closed Child Support (as Revolver) & 1 Closed Credit Card
_________________________________________________________

 

Interesting Reason Codes on my 06/13/16 report-

 

TU - Positive - You have an established credit history. (18 yrs / AAoA 4yrs 6mths)
EQ/EX - Negative - You have a short credit history. (18 yrs / AAoA 4yrs 4mths)

 

EQ - Positive - You've limited the use of your available revolving credit. (15%)
EX - Negative - You've made heavy use of your available revolving credit. (15%)
_________________________________________________________

 

My question/theory/observation-

 

My Experian 08 score has consistently been ~20 points lower than my EQ & TU scores since I started carrying balances on some cards. The only significant difference between these reports is that EX shows two accounts as Installments that both EQ & TU show as Revolvers.

 

I believe that the "How many accounts have balances" portion of the FICO algorithm is taking BOTH open and closed revolvers into account. This would help explain why my EX 08 score is consistently ~20 points lower than my EQ & TU scores as well as how/why 15% utility can be a positive on EQ, but a ngeative on EX.

 

On my 3/11/16 report EQ & TU showed a balance on 5 of 23 total (open & closed) revolvers (22%)
On my 3/11/16 report EX showed a balance on 5 of 21 total (open & closed) revolvers (24%)

 

On my 6/13/16 report EQ & TU showed a balance on 6 of 26 total (open & closed) revolvers (23%)
On my 6/13/16 report EX showed a balance on 6 of 24 total (open & closed) revolvers (25%)

 

Thoughts?

Message 1 of 11
10 REPLIES 10
RonM21
Valued Contributor

Re: MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory

Interesting observation and nice data you have provided. Me not being a guru of any kind, I think the explanation you have come up with appears to make some sense.


Total CL: $321.7kUTL: 2%AAoA: 7.0yrsBaddies: 0Other: Lease, Loan, *No Mortgage, All Inq's from Jun '20 Car Shopping

BoA-55k | NFCU-45k | AMEX-42k | DISC-40.6k | PENFED-38.4k | LOWES-35k | ALLIANT-25k | CITI-15.7k | BARCLAYS-15k | CHASE-10k

Message 2 of 11
CreditMagic7
Mega Contributor

Re: MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory

 
Message 3 of 11
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory

One big question I have is what is holding your scores back?  4 years AAOA pristine file should be 800+ on FICO 8 by most reports we've seen here; almost wonder if your bucket based on oldest account is so lofty that you look lame in comparison but I wouldn't think your bucket would go that low typically.  Also your other models look way too similar to mine in some cases even discounting my stupid EQ FICO 9 scores.  Interesting datapoints though.

 

Are there still balances on the closed accounts?  If so I would suspect they count as they apparently do for revolving utilization; if not though, at least with my dirty scorecard (and it may change for those of you in clean ones) I've always seemed to drop based on current accounts on my data: 33% and 50% for EQ FICO 8 of open revolvers reporting a balance.  If I get time I'll see about factoring in closed accounts too but I suspect it's going to come out with awkward numbers which doesn't seem to be the case for the rest of FICO scoring in general.

 

I guess the correct way to test this theory would be for another clean file to get good data on number of cards with balances and see if it corresponded with yours.  

 

In general 20 point differential is "within design tolerances" were your scores more similar prior to carrying the balances?  Also to add to that, your TU scores mostly moved upwards, though at least based on my data EQ doesn't do cards with balances on the same percentage as TU/EX at least for my scorecard.




        
Message 4 of 11
Aahz
Established Contributor

Re: MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory


@Revelate wrote:

One big question I have is what is holding your scores back?  4 years AAOA pristine file should be 800+ on FICO 8 by most reports we've seen here; almost wonder if your bucket based on oldest account is so lofty that you look lame in comparison but I wouldn't think your bucket would go that low typically.  Also your other models look way too similar to mine in some cases even discounting my stupid EQ FICO 9 scores.  Interesting datapoints though.


Your guess is as good as mine.  Probably better! Smiley Happy

I'd be happy to send you my last five 3B Reports (with only the personal info page removed) if you would be interested in wading through them yourself.  They range from 24 to 60 pages though, so it's not a small project.  Just PM me with your email address if you want 'em.

All are free of any derogatories-

11/17/14 - 766/753/767 (day my last derogatory aged off)

07/05/15 - 739/735/746

12/11/16 - 744/740/753

02/11/16 - 743/727/748

06/13/16 - 737/719/744

 

My guess is that it's a combination of new accounts, number of cards with a balance, and number of cards over 30%

 

A little history...

On 11/16/14 I still had multiple derogatories and scores all around 665

On 11/17/14 last derogs dropped and I jumped to 766/767/753 with 3 open installments, 5 closed installments, 3 open CCs and 1 closed CCs. Oldest acct: 16yrs 5mths, AAoA: 9 years, 31% revolving utility

 

Since then I've added one new auto loan and 21 new credit cards.  So, my AAoA is really being held up by five 17+ year old student loans.

I did climb briefly into the 775-785 territory after my first 3-4 prime cards were added to my clean reports.  Then the long slow decline began with additional new cards, the new car loan, and then (about 6 months ago) a series of large BTs to cover several back-to-back family emergencies.

 

I believe this new 3B report will be the low point for my scores (fingers crossed) as I'm just starting to get my feet back under me again to pay down balances and have zero cards I'm interested in apping for in the future.  So balances should drop and "new card penalties" should just diminish for the next 6 to 12 months.


@Revelate wrote:

Are there still balances on the closed accounts?  If so I would suspect they count as they apparently do for revolving utilization; if not though, at least with my dirty scorecard (and it may change for those of you in clean ones) I've always seemed to drop based on current accounts on my data: 33% and 50% for EQ FICO 8 of open revolvers reporting a balance.  If I get time I'll see about factoring in closed accounts too but I suspect it's going to come out with awkward numbers which doesn't seem to be the case for the rest of FICO scoring in general.


 

No, all closed accounts were fully paid before being closed.

 

Message 5 of 11
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory

 

Think your guess is actually on the money but I don't have time to tease it out unfortunately (really need to do the pre-work for my Chem lab starting in a couple of days, sigh).  Your revolving utilization just doesn't sound that bad (30% on a couple of tradelines would be wtfever on my report, but admittedly our scorecards are not equivalent).  If someone else does it I'd certainly be interested in seeing the results.

 

Comparison data since I find it interesting heh.  Minimal balances on 5/13 revolvers, recent mortgage and two nearly paid off baby installment loans open; 8 scoreable inquiries on EX including 2 from a few days prior, 6 accounts within 1 year (none within six months, though that'll change shortly and be interesting to see) same 6 accounts within 2 years on this report since my 2014 app spree just aged out end of May (didn't apparently get any bump up from that though or it was so small as to be lost in the noise).  Different scorecards (tax lien, 30/60 late, and a partridge in a pear tree from 2010) just I'm surprised given what you've posted that you wind up basically equivalent absolute.

 

ScoreAahz 6/13Rev 6/12
EX FICO 8719721
EX FICO 8 AU705720
EX FICO 8 BC724741
EX FICO 98725723
EX FICO 98 AU699735
EX FICO 98 BC692722
EX FICO 04699677
EX FICO 9712722
EX FICO 9 AU706735
EX FICO 9 BC708720



        
Message 6 of 11
JagerBombs89
Established Contributor

Re: MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory

You sure you don't have a lingering late on an account?  Your score seems low as if there is one or your utiliziation is actually higher than 14%

Message 7 of 11
Aahz
Established Contributor

Re: MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory


@JagerBombs89 wrote:

You sure you don't have a lingering late on an account?  Your score seems low as if there is one or your utiliziation is actually higher than 14%


Absolutely positive.  It's been over a decade since I had any late payments.  Trust me, I was counting the days for those 7 years while the garbage aged.  I've also got paper credit reports from (at least) every six months going back 12 years with every derog highlighted and noted when it dropped off.

 

Utility both on the reports and in my personal records was 14% in March and 15% currently.

 

The scores may "seem" low, but I assure you they're right where FICO thinks they should be and all the info in my OP here is both complete and accurate - I triple and quadruple checked everything while creating this post in order to give complete and accurate info since that's so seldom posted here (or on other credit forums.  Heck, I've even offered to share my full reports if anyone's interested in doing the work to try to figure out the whys and wherefores.

 

Message 8 of 11
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory

Based on the information you provide, I'm surprised your scores aren't higher.  My FICO 08's are all in the 730's and in the last 3 years I've got a 90 day late, 120 day late and a couple of 30's and 60's (which may or may not be impacting me at this point).  I know the 90 and 120 on two different accounts is seriously holding my scores back as I had around 800's before them.  With your perfect payment history and good utilization (2/3 of your score) I would expect to see very high 700's when looking at the remaining 1/3 of your scoring criteria.  Just my opinion, though.

Message 9 of 11
iv
Valued Contributor

Re: MyFICO 3B Update Score Datapoints & #of cards w Balance Theory


@Aahz wrote:

@JagerBombs89 wrote:

You sure you don't have a lingering late on an account?  Your score seems low as if there is one or your utiliziation is actually higher than 14%


Absolutely positive.  It's been over a decade since I had any late payments.  Trust me, I was counting the days for those 7 years while the garbage aged.  I've also got paper credit reports from (at least) every six months going back 12 years with every derog highlighted and noted when it dropped off.

 

Utility both on the reports and in my personal records was 14% in March and 15% currently.

 

The scores may "seem" low, but I assure you they're right where FICO thinks they should be and all the info in my OP here is both complete and accurate - I triple and quadruple checked everything while creating this post in order to give complete and accurate info since that's so seldom posted here (or on other credit forums.  Heck, I've even offered to share my full reports if anyone's interested in doing the work to try to figure out the whys and wherefores.

 


That 14/15% util is a good chunk of it right there.

 

I know that I can easily push my scores down into the high 700s by letting 14% report.

EQ8:850 TU8:850 EX8:850
EQ9:847 TU9:847 EX9:839
EQ5:797 TU4:807 EX2:813 - 2021-06-06
Message 10 of 11
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