Oldest account?

[909]

Hello,

My credit reports show two different oldest accounts: TU shows a USBank card at 14 years old while EX and EQ show a BofA card that's 28 years old.

Can I get TU to reflect the 28 year old BofA account? Would it affect my score?

My TU account typically lags the others by 20 points. Today, my score 8s are EQ - 790, EX - 785, TU - 765. A serious delinquency is a negative at all three (90 day late on my mortgage on 9/2010 during a divorce) and recent credit inquiries and new accounts (I added 6 credit cards Feb this year to my existing Cap One account to show more credit). My scores recently jumped from 700 - 720 to the current scores last month.

[Anonymous]

I guess the question is what's the status of the 28 year old account?  Is it open?  If closed, when was it closed?  If it was closed in the last 10 years, it should still be on all of your reports.  If it was closed more than 10 years ago, there's nothing you can do and it's simply a bonus that it still remains for whatever reason with the other bureaus. 

[909]

Thanks! The BofA account is closed and shows a status and last activity date of April, 2007. Does that mean it will soon disappear or do old accounts sometimes remain.

Thanks.

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[Anonymous]

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@909 wrote:
Thanks! The BofA account is closed and shows a status and last activity date of April, 2007. Does that mean it will soon disappear or do old accounts sometimes remain.

Thanks.

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BBS may not have seen your last post, so I will step in and give you a quick answer.

(1)  Some closed accounts leave your report much sooner than at the 10 year mark.  This is uncommon, but is not that rare.  There's no pattern to when this will happen.  It could happen with any account.  It's typically the result of the creditor doing internal housecleaning.  It can also happen if you give the creditor enough grief about a closed account (disputing something that needs to be corrected)  They could just delete it.  I think that happened to Thom Thumb (by accident).

(2) Most closed accounts fall off exactly 10 years after the "Date Closed" -- give or take a month.

(3)  Some closed accounts stay on your report much longer than the 10 year mark.  This is even less common than #1, but again is not wildly rare.  There's no pattern to when this will happen.  It could happen with any account.  (as far as I have heard.)

In your case, a reasonable thing to expect is that it will stay on your reports through March 2017.  (10 years)  If it is still on your report by July, then you may have lucked out and it could stay on for a very long time.

[909]

That's helpful. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

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@909 wrote:
Hello,

My credit reports show two different oldest accounts: TU shows a USBank card at 14 years old while EX and EQ show a BofA card that's 28 years old.

My TU account typically lags the others by 20 points. Today, my score 8s are EQ - 790, EX - 785, TU - 765. A serious delinquency is a negative at all three (90 day late on my mortgage on 9/2010 during a divorce) and recent credit inquiries and new accounts (I added 6 credit cards Feb this year to my existing Cap One account to show more credit). My scores recently jumped from 700 - 720 to the current scores last month.

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Is there anything else (besides "age of oldest account") about the TU report that might explain the 20 point difference?  For example does TU have 1-2 more inquiries?  Are all derogs and accounts and balances exactly the same (again, excepting the extra very old account)?  Does the very old account change your utilization at all?  How much help does the old account give you to your AAoA?  (If you have many accounts the help will likely be trivial.)

If we can't think of anything else that might cause this constant 20 point difference, then your post may help the broader community here.  If suggests (though doesn't prove) that FICO 8 continues to give substantial extra points as your "age of oldest" increases beyond 14 years.  The evidence from the broader community suggests that you stop getting much help from AAoA at a much lower level, but it may be that the model gives substantial help as the profile itself ages into the late teens and higher. 

[909]

I just reviewed my FICO CRs and TU Shows 7 inquiries in the past two years v. 2 for EQ and 4 for EX. Derogs (2 negatives, one mortgage and one cc) and balances are the same.

Both old accounts above are outliers in that nearly every other account I have is relatively new: mortgage 2 years, car 2 years, Cap One cc 5 years, 6 other ccs all less than a year old. I do have three closed mortgages that go back 15 years.

Today, my FICO 8 from 3B are 792 EQ, 788 EX, 766 TU

As a bit of background, my ex and I closed all ccs in 2007/2008 when we had a financial meltdown. We divorced in 2011 and I've been building credit since. I have a 90 day late on a mortgage and a 60 day late on a cc. Both 6 years old (from the dark days of the divorce) and scheduled to drop off next year.

My FICO 8s have all increased more than 100 points in the last year, most recently with 65 EX, 69 EQ and 55 TU point jumps in September.

So, the two primary differences that may explain the lower TU score is the difference in oldest account (14 years for TY v. 28 years for EX and EQ) and recent credit inquiries (7 for TU and 2 for EQ and 4 for EX)

Does anyone have ideas if my scores will drop a lot when the old accounts drop off next year. Also, can I get BofA and USBank to reopen those accounts? I have open ccs with both of them today.

Thanks for any insights!

[Anonymous]

I did not relaize that the 14 year account was also closed.  When was it closed?

To recap,

     * Your 28-year old BOA account was closed in April 2007.  It will very likely fall off your reports in March/April of 2017.

     * Your 14-year old US Bank account was closed in _______.  It will very likely fall off your reports ten years after the close date.

     * You also have some other closed accounts that are fairly old (but under 14 years old).  You mention two closed mortgages.

     * You have a Cap 1 CC account that is five years old.  Unclear if it is open or closed.

We can help you better predict what will happen if you tell us:

     * When was the US bank card closed?

     * When were your two fairly old mortgages closed?  How old are they as of today?

     * Is the Cap 1 card open or closed?

     * Are all other accounts fairly new?  (Pretty sure the answer is yes.)

It is very unlikely you will be able to persuade the credit card issuers to reopen the two extremely old cards and do so with the old date opened.  They will almost certainly be glad to "re-open" them but the "date opened" will be in 2016.  Some people have had luck doing what you want, but only when the accounts were closed very recently.  These cards were closed a long while back (can't say for sure about the US Bank card).

The big ideas for you to get are these:

     * Closed accounts typically fall off your report ten years after the close date.

     * "Age of oldest account" is an important factor in your score.  It is used in part in determining the scorecard you are placed into, for one thing.  As you can see, having a TU profile that is 28 years old appears to have gotten  you 20 extra points over the other two bureaus (where you are currently 14 years old).

Using the two bulleted concepts above, you should be able to make reasonable guesses as to what will happen to your score and when.  A crucial step for you is to make a list of all your old closed accounts and then assume that they will each fall off 10 years after the close date.  That in turn will enable you to predict what your "Age of oldest account" will be on any month for the next 20 years.

You should also identify the age of your oldest OPEN credit card.  If that card is a no annual fee card, you'll want to take steps to protect it from ever being closed.  The longer you keep it open (for the future) the more confident you can be of protecting yourself down the the road from losing profile age.

There are many other factors that affect your credit score.  This is just one.  Many of the other factors you can control (e.g. preventing yourself from getting any more derogs, controlling the CC balances that are reported to the bureaus, etc.).  Age of oldest account you cannot control, except by choosing for the future to keeping credit cards open when you can.

[909]

Your recap is correct. The Cap One cc is still open. It was opened in 1/2012

- US Bank cc: opened 2002, last activity 9/2013, status date (closed?) 10/2014. This is the account cc that EX (EQ and TU do not show it as late) reports as 150 days late ( corrected from 60 days that I said above) 6/2010. I made my last payment 9/2013.

- Mortgage 1, opened 2003, closed 2007

- Mortgage 2 (#1 above transferred from ABN Amro to Citi) opened 2007, closed 9/2013. This is the mortgage with a 90 day late 9/2010

- Mortgage 3 (refi. of #2 to buyout my ex) opened 9/2013, closed 1/2016)

- Mortgage 4 (refi of # 3 to reduce rate, shorten term to 15 years) opened 1/2016, still open

- all other open accounts are new in the last two years, there's a closed car loan opened 2011, closed 2013

Reading your note, suggests:

- The 28 year old BofA cc will drop off EX and EQ in 2017, to be replaced with my next oldest, the US Bank cc, so in 2017, the oldest account will drop from 29 years to 15 years on EQ and EX. That could drop those two scores.

-  Then the US Bank cc, opened in 2002, will remain on my report until 10 years after closing (2023 or 2024) at which point it will be replaced by the CapOne cc (opened 1/2012) so my oldest account in 2023 will drop from about 20 years to about 12 years (looks like I'm a Cap One customer for life! )

Bottom line, I'm likely losing the BofA account opened, 6/1988, closed 4/2007 in 2017 EQ and EX oldest account will drop from 29 to 15 years. We'll see what happens to my scores then!

Clearly, I shouldn't have closed BofA in 2007 but that was a small concern at the time given the financial mess we got ourselves into. All-in-all, it's been quite a few years of recovery and I feel like I've restablished my financial self as my scores finally crossed 700 in the last 12 months.

[Anonymous]

You are in great shape, pal.  That US bank will govern your "age of oldest" fo several years, during which time your scores will keep growing. 

Even when the US Bank card does fall off, you'll still only be falling back to the Cap 1 account, which will still be a nice age by then.

Actually, now that I look at it more carefully, it looks to me that when the US Bank account falls off, your profile age will not drop to the age of the Cap 1 account.  Rather, it will drop to the age of Mortgage 2, which as of today is 9 years old.  Yes?  That's even better for you.

The key thing to observe is that lots of great stuff will be happening to you before the US Bank card falls off, namely all your derogs falling off.