Your questions:
- I have both an EX and a MF sub. In fact I'm sitting on a 3B refresh with EX that I can pull, waiting on when all the COs drop to $0. My next 3B for MF will be 6/15.
- I joined MF in beginning of April and lurked the forums for a few weeks before I started posting at the end of April. So been posting here about a month.
- I'm going to research reporting dates and try to plan out the Util on my opens for the next 3B and match-up based on your advice. This should help us get the full compliment of scores. I hope an EX 3B gives all the same scores as a MF 3B.
OK - reset the stage for the EX hit on a CO. My Open Revolvers did not change, listed below. CO #1 reported $0 already, so I removed it for this comparison. Now CO #3 is reporting $0 for EX.
The DOFD for CO #3 was 4/2017, so the TPOD would be like 37 months?
So just prior to CO #3 going to $0, it looked like this:
Open Revolvers (No lates or derogs)
#1 AMEX = 86 / 500 (17%)
#2 LENDUP = 0 / 700 (0%)
#3 CRED ONE = 6 / 1,350 (<1%)
#4 SYNCH = 0 / 1,090 (0%)
TOTAL = 92 / 3,640 (3%)
#1 AMEX = 86 / 500 (17%)
#2 LENDUP = 0 / 700 (0%)
#3 CRED ONE = 6 / 1,350 (<1%)
#4 SYNCH = 0 / 1,090 (0%)
TOTAL = 92 / 3,640 (3%)
Closed COs [Past Due] (Balance / Original CL)
#2 = 984 / 1,500 (67%)
#3 = 1,615 / 3,400 (48%)
#4 = 452 / 750 (61%)
#5 = 2,141 / 3,500 (62%)
TOTAL = 5,192 / 9,150 (57%)
#2 = 984 / 1,500 (67%)
#3 = 1,615 / 3,400 (48%)
#4 = 452 / 750 (61%)
#5 = 2,141 / 3,500 (62%)
TOTAL = 5,192 / 9,150 (57%)
Scenario #1 - COs are maxxed out, all COs are seen at 100% Util
BEFORE CO #3 dropped to $0 = 9,242 / 12,790 (72.2%)
AFTER CO #3 dropped to $0, removing it from calc = 5,842 / 9,390 (62.2%)
Scenario #2 - COs are seen by algos as ACTUAL Util using their balance and CL
BEFORE CO #3 dropped to $0 = 5,284 / 12,790 (41.3%)
AFTER CO #3 dropped to $0, removing it from calc = 3,669 / 9,390 (39.0%)
Scenario #3 - COs are seen by the algos with their balance, but with 0 CL
BEFORE CO #3 dropped to $0 = 5,284 / 3,640 (145.0%)
AFTER CO #3 dropped to $0, removing it from calc = 3,669 / 3,640 (100.7%)
and just a reminder, here is how my EX scores behaved:
EX 8 = 648 -> 653
EX 2 = 633 -> 635
EX AU2 = 678 -> 687
EX AU8 = 648 -> 674
EX BS2 = 613 -> 636
EX BS8 = 634 -> 662
Reason codes look to the the SAME.
So it looks like today the CO #3 dropping to $0 hit EQ and TU. I don't have options to look at EQ and TU scores other than FICO 8 via MF. Unless we count FAKO VS3/4.
Losing the $1,615 past due balance the scores went:
EQ 8 = 660 -> 667
TU 8 = 658 -> 662
I think it's safe to say this 1 CO had very little impact to the scores as EX barely moved, too. That would lead me to believe that it didn't cross any significant Util breakpoint.
@Anonymous wrote:
@TheKid2 wrote:So it looks like today the CO #3 dropping to $0 hit EQ and TU. I don't have options to look at EQ and TU scores other than FICO 8 via MF. Unless we count FAKO VS3/4.
Losing the $1,615 past due balance the scores went:
EQ 8 = 660 -> 667
TU 8 = 658 -> 662
I think it's safe to say this 1 CO had very little impact to the scores as EX barely moved, too. That would lead me to believe that it didn't cross any significant Util breakpoint.
It's not whether the breakpoint is "significant," cuz I think they are around the same for each kind on Score 8. The question would be if and how many it crossed. For example, out of the 3 scenarios, only scenario 1 crossed a aggregate threshold, the first.
Actually looking again, I think that the BS scores saw a nice score boost and the AU8 seems significant, but most of the others like the regular 8s kind of just shrugged.
I don't know if you can glean too much from this, but it seems the more I read, the more people THINK that scenario 1 (algos treat them like maxxed out cards) is a leading candidate for how COs with a past due are scored. I don't really know for sure if this helps that hypothesis enough. But as you note, scenario 2 and 3 would not have awarded me points for aggregate Util.
As for last update, it definitely has the Report Date and Last Payment Date (this month) for when they updated the balance to $0. Unless the algos are using some other field for TPOD I'm guessing that it starts at DOFD and goes to when it was paid / this month / which is like 37 months.
I don't use the Synch card, so no worries about that catching a balance, but the others have some recurring subscription charges (like MF and EX haha) - so I need to watch those carefully. I think the only one in danger is the Cred One, which updated on CK 1st of the month (you gave me the trick to look there). Either way, I will have a couple of cards with a small balance at least.
Like I said earlier, I am a bit worried about the last 3 COs (all Cap1) hitting at the same time. But I will worry about the things I can control instead of what I can't. Will do my best to report the scores for analysis.
I'm really enjoying everything I've learned from this place. Thanks again.
@Anonymous wrote:
OK prior last update was 12/2019. So TPOD only increased 5 months, So I would think that would be a small hit, relatively, if any. And if it’s calculating from recency, the last update has only changed 5 months, so I don’t think that would be significant either.
An account that was regularly updating would make it easier to isolate how the utilization works, but I do not believe a 5 month increase in TPOD/recency would be significant at all. Who knows, it could even be done in six month increments. We know fico loves it’s thresholds and buckets and bins.
As a matter fact, as we progress in our learning of this subject, we will need to determine for sure what the utilization effect is, so that will be able to account for it as we explore TPOD‘s effects.
Obviously we can’t do that conclusively with your case because TPOD did change, but once we know that, it will allow your case to enlighten us even further. Meanwhile we’re learning a bunch!
Prior to us opening this dialog and introducing TPOD, I don't think I saw ANYONE talking about it in relation to COs. I've tried to scour these forums about the impact of COs and there really isn't much beyond the general advice to settle the past due balance and attempt to GW them off. That is pretty much the only strategy and advice I can find. It's smart financially to pay off all your debts, but the bottom line is a CO appears to be the most penal derog on a file (excluding CAs, Public Records, etc). So, even without a collection we are talking dirty scorecard until ALL the COs age off (or is GW gone) and for someone like me with multiple COs that is daunting. For this reason I am vested in trying to understand how multiple COs are scored.
There does seem to be a pattern with reason codes where they consistently mention "one or more", which led me to think you're being penalized just for having one - the question is how are you penalized and I think you are onto something with TPOD. This is kind of the next logical step once I get all the COs with balances to $0. For instance, are you penalized for the highest TPOD CO only or do multiple COs factor in? Do the algos actually care about the $ figures in your COs because if Scenario 1 is true, the algos most certainly are seeing the CL for a CO to assign it at 100% Util until it is settled? Not sure we can prove any of this, but it will be fun to try.
Took a while, but as has been usual for me the updates hit EX first. For good or bad, all 3 remaining CO settlements hit at the same time I assume because they were all Cap1. I will make a more detailed post and pull a 3B from EX when it finally hits all 3 CRAs. Here is what eliminating past due balances did to my EX scores. My open revolving Util did not change from the previous update, which I think is good because I am NOT at AZEO, yet. My hope is to get there on the 6/15 update. Note that I have mulitple COs and indicated the TPOD for each of the last 3 that came off.
So just prior to the last 3 COs going to $0, it looked like this:
Open Revolvers (No lates or derogs)
#1 AMEX = 86 / 500 (17%)
#2 LENDUP = 0 / 700 (0%)
#3 CRED ONE = 6 / 1,350 (<1%)
#4 SYNCH = 0 / 1,090 (0%)
TOTAL = 92 / 3,640 (3%)
#1 AMEX = 86 / 500 (17%)
#2 LENDUP = 0 / 700 (0%)
#3 CRED ONE = 6 / 1,350 (<1%)
#4 SYNCH = 0 / 1,090 (0%)
TOTAL = 92 / 3,640 (3%)
Closed COs [Past Due] (Balance / Original CL) - DOFD - TPOD
#2 = 984 / 1,500 - 4/2017 - 37 months
#4 = 452 / 750 - 4/2017 - 37 months
#5 = 2,141 / 3,500 - 4/2017 - 37 months
TOTAL = 3,577 / 5,750 (maxxed out %?)
#2 = 984 / 1,500 - 4/2017 - 37 months
#4 = 452 / 750 - 4/2017 - 37 months
#5 = 2,141 / 3,500 - 4/2017 - 37 months
TOTAL = 3,577 / 5,750 (maxxed out %?)
Here is how my EX scores behaved:
EX 8 = 653 -> 702
EX 2 = 635 - > 674
EX AU2 = 687 -> 713
EX AU8 = 674 -> 720
EX BS2 = 636 -> 686
EX BS8 = 662 -> 711
EX 3 = 650 -> 686
Reason codes now look like this:
