Spree Penalty

[Anonymous]

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@Curious_George2 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Curious_George2 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
I would’ve expected 5, 4 and 2 to have it at 31% with a balance. Hmmm. You weren’t lying when you said you had a weird file. Lol.

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Do we have a solid understanding of what gets included in the denominator for these? Obviously open loans and cards do. What about closed loans and closed cards?

I went from 7 accounts with balances to 8 overnight and EX2 took away 6 points. It had just given me those points two days ago when I went from 8 to 7, so kudos for consistency. On EX, I have 14 open accounts, 12 closed. One of the closed accounts is a card, all the others are loans.

So if only open accounts count, 7/14 (50%) is OK. 8/14 (57%) is not.

If open and closed everything counts, 7/26 (27%) is OK. 8/26 (31%) is not.

Also, FWIW, EX2 didn't care that my scorable inquiries went from 4 to 2, which also happened overnight... maybe. Leap day might have screwed up the math. The two inquiries were on on 2/14/2020. EX8 decided they were unscorable as of today. I assume EX2 counts days the same way as EX8, but perhaps not.

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Good question we're not absolutely certain on that. We have one data point the EX2 may include closed accounts in the metric. But we are far from certain. Personally I've been doing calculations for open revolvers, calculations for open accounts, and calculations for open and closed accounts trying to find a pattern. We'll figure it out sooner or later. 

as to your second question, version 2 and version 8 are different on the inquiries. They are a day off on leap year for EX2 Rev discovered that. 

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Remi and I form a lil pattern today. If closed accounts count, then we both got the penalty on an EX2-based score (Classic for her. BC for me.) when we went over 30%. We both got it at 31% -- 4/13 for her. 8/26 for me. And neither of us got it one account below that -- 23% for her, 27% for me. Sure seems like closed accounts count and there's a threshold at 30%.

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@Curious_George2  this lend credence to the prior data point then. @Trudy Did you still have the accounts with a balance Reason code after you went under that?

[Anonymous]

@Revelate and yes, that's my number one reason code, too. Also in the Primer. We learned a few things while you were away, connected a couple dots. 

seems to be the first balance threshold on TU8 is between roughly 4500 and 5500 also.

[Revelate]

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@Anonymous wrote:

@Revelate and yes, that's my number one reason code, too. Also in the Primer. We learned a few things while you were away, connected a couple dots. 

seems to be the first balance threshold on TU8 is between roughly 4500 and 5500 also.

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Cheers on the too many accounts thing.

But how do you reconcile 60D late with top 8 reason codes?  Like I am 99.999% sure it was bottom 4 but I have to go dig out information that I don't have onhand and of course myFICO implemented a ridiculuous data retention policy on their side.

[Anonymous]

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@Revelate wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

@Revelate and yes, that's my number one reason code, too. Also in the Primer. We learned a few things while you were away, connected a couple dots. 

seems to be the first balance threshold on TU8 is between roughly 4500 and 5500 also.

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Cheers on the too many accounts thing.

But how do you reconcile 60D late with top 8 reason codes?  Like I am 99.999% sure it was bottom 4 but I have to go dig out information that I don't have onhand and of course myFICO implemented a ridiculuous data retention policy on their side.

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@Revelate see my above post that you missed, we learned because of you that a 60 day late changes to a clean card on the mortgage Scores, IIRC. 

[Anonymous]

I was right, it's your fault we figured it out: the links are there in the original this is from the Primer:

A 60 day late is considered a major derogatory and will segment you into a dirty scorecard for 7 years on Score 8. (It appears a 60 day late only assigns you to a dirty card for 2 years on TU4 per recent testing by our esteemed Moderator Emeritus Revelate Link. This appears to be confirmed for EX2 as well, by MyFICO Contributor Ficoproblems247 Posts 10 and 17. And evidence that EQ5 segments delinquencies at two years. Link. Note that the "new account" negative reason code does not exist on dirty cards, so its presence indicates a clean card.)

[Revelate]

Ah cheers I am growing badly forgetful in my old age apparently.

I will still see if I can look at my old reports; I know 2 year mark was a thing for 30D lates I just didn't understand or recall the transition for 60D.  

Not sure if I had data around that likely time, maybe.  It's been a truly awkward year.

[Anonymous]

@Revelate it's all good. See? you even contribute in your absence. Data points you provided allowed us to build even further. You are definitely a treasure and an asset and we are all very grateful to have you and your wisdom! 

yeah 30 day late stayed in a clean card always. You corrected me when I thought multiple 30s might put one in a dirty card and you said no. 

what we do need to figure out is whether or not PRs also segment at 2 years, that has not been confirmed. When does the bankruptcy or collections go from recent >mature on 8/9 and does it go back to clean on the mortgage scores? Or stay dirty all 7 to 10? When 

we have also learned it appears that chargeoffs only contribute to revolving utilization 2 years, unless they are regularly updating, then they will continue to contribute.

we have also been trying to hone in on balance thresholds. @HeavenOhio found a $147 threshold on the mortgage scores I believe. I have one I think between roughly $4500 and $5500 on TU8.

trying to think of all the updates, we have learned a bit. 

[Anonymous]

@Revelate Read post 70 for the 60 day late explanation to refresh your recollection:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Spree-Penalty/m-p/6256166/highlight/true...

[Anonymous]

And your original thread @Revelate :

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Terrible-but-fascinating-to-me-datapoint...

[Trudy]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Curious_George2 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Curious_George2 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
I would’ve expected 5, 4 and 2 to have it at 31% with a balance. Hmmm. You weren’t lying when you said you had a weird file. Lol.

---

Do we have a solid understanding of what gets included in the denominator for these? Obviously open loans and cards do. What about closed loans and closed cards?

I went from 7 accounts with balances to 8 overnight and EX2 took away 6 points. It had just given me those points two days ago when I went from 8 to 7, so kudos for consistency. On EX, I have 14 open accounts, 12 closed. One of the closed accounts is a card, all the others are loans.

So if only open accounts count, 7/14 (50%) is OK. 8/14 (57%) is not.

If open and closed everything counts, 7/26 (27%) is OK. 8/26 (31%) is not.

Also, FWIW, EX2 didn't care that my scorable inquiries went from 4 to 2, which also happened overnight... maybe. Leap day might have screwed up the math. The two inquiries were on on 2/14/2020. EX8 decided they were unscorable as of today. I assume EX2 counts days the same way as EX8, but perhaps not.

---

Good question we're not absolutely certain on that. We have one data point the EX2 may include closed accounts in the metric. But we are far from certain. Personally I've been doing calculations for open revolvers, calculations for open accounts, and calculations for open and closed accounts trying to find a pattern. We'll figure it out sooner or later. 

as to your second question, version 2 and version 8 are different on the inquiries. They are a day off on leap year for EX2 Rev discovered that. 

---

Remi and I form a lil pattern today. If closed accounts count, then we both got the penalty on an EX2-based score (Classic for her. BC for me.) when we went over 30%. We both got it at 31% -- 4/13 for her. 8/26 for me. And neither of us got it one account below that -- 23% for her, 27% for me. Sure seems like closed accounts count and there's a threshold at 30%.

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@Curious_George2  this lend credence to the prior data point then. @Trudy Did you still have the accounts with a balance Reason code after you went under that?

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Hey @Anonymous.  Took me some time to figure out what this tag was about but I think it's regarding when my EX2 scores dropped due to a closed account falling off?  If so here's the changes.