Re: The road to 760 (help me get there!)

Anonymous · ‎06-08-2020

@VanderSnoot wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
The collection removal happened PRIOR to paying down any balances or passing any thresholds. only minimum payments were being made prior. I passed a dozen intidivudual and 1 aggregate threshold and took cards to 0 balance AFTER the reporting of the collection removal. I can say with decent certainty how my score was/was not effected by the paydown of balances.
OK. Let's take a look. In order to disentangle these effects, you need to change one variable and hold all other variables constant - no aging thresholds, no utilization thresholds, no new accounts or inquiries. It can take 2 months for the score to adjust after paying off a collection. If you paid it in February, then it would have cleared in April, and you could start to see causality in May. Again, only if all other variables are constant. What thresholds did you hit last month and what score changes did you see?

Scores upgraded from collection on april 8th.

since then passed 68.9, 48.9, 28.9, 8.9 on paypal

passed 68.9, 48.9, 28.9, 8.9 on walmart

passed 28.8, 8.9 on venture

passed 88.9, 68.9 on amazon

passed 68.9 on AMEX

passed 8.9 on quicsilver

aggregate passed 28.9

those were reported on may 15th, may 20th, may 24th, and 2 days ago. my experian fico 2 increased 1 point on that

Anonymous · ‎06-08-2020

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@VanderSnoot wrote:
OP, you seem confident that the installment loans are the problem, but we don't see evidence of that from what you've shared. Can you give us more DPs on these loans? Loan amount, current balance, utilization would be really helpful.

You also wrote that you don't believe that lowering revolver utilization will help because you have passed thresholds in the past and have not seen a change. The problem is that you have a messy file: there's so much going on that no one can confidently say what events are/are not triggering score changes. Removing your collection in February was huge, as that collection account was probably holding down your score so much that it hid changes in utilization thresholds.

From what we can see, the consensus is that the hang-up is caused by: 1) inquiries, 2) young accounts, and 3) high individual and total utilization on revolvers. Aging will help with #1 and #2. Paying your credit cards down below the previously mentioned thresholds will help #3.

Will an AU help? Maybe. The great thing is you can try it out, and if it doesn't help, you can remove it. There's no memory.

So in sum, here's what would help us help you:
Share more DPs on your installment loans; and
Keep an open mind about revolver utilization. Just like a magic act, what you think you saw may not be what actually happened.
The collection removal happened PRIOR to paying down any balances or passing any thresholds. only minimum payments were being made prior. I passed a dozen intidivudual and 1 aggregate threshold and took cards to 0 balance AFTER the reporting of the collection removal. I can say with decent certainty how my score was/was not effected by the paydown of balances.
Would you please stop saying that. I believe you are under the impression that individual thresholds exist per card. If you have 10 cards that are maxed and you pay one off completely, I think you feel that you would gain some points for an individual threshold. No. Unless that affects your total utilization as a whole, your score won't move 1 point. Why? You still have other cards that are maxed. In your case, like I said earlier, you still have a few cards over 50%.

so there is no such thing as individual threshold for mortgage scores? only fico 8? that would make sense based on my fico 8 drastically increasing when those individual cards reported and past thresholds but mortgage scores did not.

VanderSnoot · ‎06-08-2020

@Anonymous wrote:
@VanderSnoot wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
The collection removal happened PRIOR to paying down any balances or passing any thresholds. only minimum payments were being made prior. I passed a dozen intidivudual and 1 aggregate threshold and took cards to 0 balance AFTER the reporting of the collection removal. I can say with decent certainty how my score was/was not effected by the paydown of balances.
OK. Let's take a look. In order to disentangle these effects, you need to change one variable and hold all other variables constant - no aging thresholds, no utilization thresholds, no new accounts or inquiries. It can take 2 months for the score to adjust after paying off a collection. If you paid it in February, then it would have cleared in April, and you could start to see causality in May. Again, only if all other variables are constant. What thresholds did you hit last month and what score changes did you see?
Scores upgraded from collection on april 8th.

since then passed 68.9, 48.9, 28.9, 8.9 on paypal
passed 68.9, 48.9, 28.9, 8.9 on walmart
passed 28.8, 8.9 on venture
passed 88.9, 68.9 on amazon
passed 68.9 on AMEX
passed 8.9 on quicsilver
aggregate passed 28.9

those were reported on may 15th, may 20th, may 24th, and 2 days ago. my experian fico 2 increased 1 point on that

Thank you, that's helpful. All of those changes would have been positive, as would hitting any aging thresholds (it looks like you hit one in April). Utilization updates immediately, so there's no delay in reporting. However, it's possible that the high utilization on the remaining cards is holding you back, as well as the high number of inquiries and young accounts. TU appears to be especially sensitive to young accounts. For example, I have a clean, thick card and my EQ and EX are mid-800s but my TU is in the 790s because of accounts added in the last two years (and their inquiries). We may not be able to get your TU over 760, but we can sure as hell try with your EQ and EX.

Lets take a look at your installment loans. Can you share those DPs? Exactly what you did in your OP for your CCs - loan amount, current balance, individual and aggregate utilization.

Anonymous · ‎06-08-2020

@VanderSnoot wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@VanderSnoot wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
The collection removal happened PRIOR to paying down any balances or passing any thresholds. only minimum payments were being made prior. I passed a dozen intidivudual and 1 aggregate threshold and took cards to 0 balance AFTER the reporting of the collection removal. I can say with decent certainty how my score was/was not effected by the paydown of balances.
OK. Let's take a look. In order to disentangle these effects, you need to change one variable and hold all other variables constant - no aging thresholds, no utilization thresholds, no new accounts or inquiries. It can take 2 months for the score to adjust after paying off a collection. If you paid it in February, then it would have cleared in April, and you could start to see causality in May. Again, only if all other variables are constant. What thresholds did you hit last month and what score changes did you see?
Scores upgraded from collection on april 8th.

since then passed 68.9, 48.9, 28.9, 8.9 on paypal
passed 68.9, 48.9, 28.9, 8.9 on walmart
passed 28.8, 8.9 on venture
passed 88.9, 68.9 on amazon
passed 68.9 on AMEX
passed 8.9 on quicsilver
aggregate passed 28.9

those were reported on may 15th, may 20th, may 24th, and 2 days ago. my experian fico 2 increased 1 point on that
Thank you, that's helpful. All of those changes would have been positive, as would hitting any aging thresholds (it looks like you hit one in April). Utilization updates immediately, so there's no delay in reporting. However, it's possible that the high utilization on the remaining cards is holding you back, as well as the high number of inquiries and young accounts. TU appears to be especially sensitive to young accounts. For example, I have a clean, thick card and my EQ and EX are mid-800s but my TU is in the 790s because of accounts added in the last two years (and their inquiries). We may not be able to get your TU over 760, but we can sure as hell try with your EQ and EX.

Lets take a look at your installment loans. Can you share those DPs? Exactly what you did in your OP for your CCs - loan amount, current balance, individual and aggregate utilization.

Account	Balance	Limit	Ratio
Navient	$32,109.00	$40,000.00	80.3%
Navient	$2,544.00	$4,000.00	63.6%
CapOne Auto	$17,878.00	$24,050.00	74.3%
Total	$52,531.00	$68,050.00	77.2%

Thanks thats really helpful! to note, the smaller second navient loan does show/report to Equifax for some reason. and EQ happens to also be my highest score.

Anonymous · ‎06-08-2020

@Anonymous wrote:
@VanderSnoot wrote:
Lets take a look at your installment loans. Can you share those DPs? Exactly what you did in your OP for your CCs - loan amount, current balance, individual and aggregate utilization.
Account Balance Limit Ratio
Navient $32,109.00 $40,000.00 80.3%
Navient $2,544.00 $4,000.00 63.6%
CapOne Auto $17,878.00 $24,050.00 74.3%
Total $52,531.00 $68,050.00 77.2%

Thanks thats really helpful! to note, the smaller second navient loan does show/report to Equifax for some reason. and EQ happens to also be my highest score.

On EX 2 there are a couple of reason statements relating to balance amounts. One of them has to do with Auto loans.

Proportion of balances to loan amounts on auto accounts is too high

Amount paid down on open installment loans is too low

...and the revolving one...

Amount owed on revolving accounts is too high

You may not see those statements on the EX 2 score and they could still be weighing heavily.

I can get 'Amount owed on Revolving Accounts is too high' to shift down 1 spot just dropping under $1000 in balances from $1215. It makes me wonder how big a shift might occur when dropping 1000's off your current total revolving balances of around $9000.

What are the reason statements shown for your EX 2 score?

SouthJamaica · ‎10-07-2020

@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@VanderSnoot wrote:
OP, you seem confident that the installment loans are the problem, but we don't see evidence of that from what you've shared. Can you give us more DPs on these loans? Loan amount, current balance, utilization would be really helpful.

You also wrote that you don't believe that lowering revolver utilization will help because you have passed thresholds in the past and have not seen a change. The problem is that you have a messy file: there's so much going on that no one can confidently say what events are/are not triggering score changes. Removing your collection in February was huge, as that collection account was probably holding down your score so much that it hid changes in utilization thresholds.

From what we can see, the consensus is that the hang-up is caused by: 1) inquiries, 2) young accounts, and 3) high individual and total utilization on revolvers. Aging will help with #1 and #2. Paying your credit cards down below the previously mentioned thresholds will help #3.

Will an AU help? Maybe. The great thing is you can try it out, and if it doesn't help, you can remove it. There's no memory.

So in sum, here's what would help us help you:
Share more DPs on your installment loans; and
Keep an open mind about revolver utilization. Just like a magic act, what you think you saw may not be what actually happened.
The collection removal happened PRIOR to paying down any balances or passing any thresholds. only minimum payments were being made prior. I passed a dozen intidivudual and 1 aggregate threshold and took cards to 0 balance AFTER the reporting of the collection removal. I can say with decent certainty how my score was/was not effected by the paydown of balances.
Would you please stop saying that. I believe you are under the impression that individual thresholds exist per card. If you have 10 cards that are maxed and you pay one off completely, I think you feel that you would gain some points for an individual threshold. No. Unless that affects your total utilization as a whole, your score won't move 1 point. Why? You still have other cards that are maxed. In your case, like I said earlier, you still have a few cards over 50%.
so there is no such thing as individual threshold for mortgage scores? only fico 8? that would make sense based on my fico 8 drastically increasing when those individual cards reported and past thresholds but mortgage scores did not.

IMHO there certainly are individual account thresholds for the mortgage scores. I'm reasonably sure that 30% and 50% are thresholds in both mortgage scores and FICO 8's and 9's.