[Update 4/9] Experiment in paying all revolvers to zero

[SouthJamaica]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Last time I had all report 0 it caused about a 16 point drop across the board.

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That sounds about right, from what I've heard.

I don't think I've experienced it yet, so I can't say from personal experience.

[SouthJamaica]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I imagine you'll see a drop on all 3 as well, further proof that simulators are garbage

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Yeah well we don't know. Maybe the simulator is right, and our collective wisdom is wrong.If I can pull this off, we'll find out soon enough.

I hope I can manage to get the 2 accounts left to report at zero. They're both PLOC's and I've been having a devil of a time figuring out their reporting schedules and policies.

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Best I can tell, the Fico simulator doesnot includes the zero cards/zero utilization "discontinuity" in its score estimation.

I have a hunch you're right on that, but one would think the simulator would be using the same algorithm if it was going to have any value. Imagine a flight simulator that ignored wind speed.

PS - I checked out the Beta version of the 3B report yesterday. For those that generated a 3B after 3/15/17, you should be able to go in and look at a Beta version of your report.

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[Anonymous]

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I imagine you'll see a drop on all 3 as well, further proof that simulators are garbage

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Yeah well we don't know. Maybe the simulator is right, and our collective wisdom is wrong.If I can pull this off, we'll find out soon enough.

I hope I can manage to get the 2 accounts left to report at zero. They're both PLOC's and I've been having a devil of a time figuring out their reporting schedules and policies.

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Best I can tell, the Fico simulator doesnot includes the zero cards/zero utilization "discontinuity" in its score estimation.

I have a hunch you're right on that, but one would think the simulator would be using the same algorithm if it was going to have any value. Imagine a flight simulator that ignored wind speed.

PS - I checked out the Beta version of the 3B report yesterday. For those that generated a 3B after 3/15/17, you should be able to go in and look at a Beta version of your report.

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Because the FICO algorithm is one of the most closely guarded pieces of intellectual property on the planet, I find it highly likely that most/all score simulators are missing pieces of it BY DESIGN, in an effort to foil attempts (like ours) at reverse-engineering the thing.  After all, if figuring out *exactly* what worked were as easy as using a simulator, would the enthusiastic user base of these forums even have a reason to exist?  I think not.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Last time I had all report 0 it caused about a 16 point drop across the board.

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Pretty standard there.  My drop was 14-22 points depending on bureau.  I can't remember now which bureau took the biggest and smallest hit, but they were all in that range.

I don't think I've ever seen a simulator NOT suggest a score increase for "paying off all credit cards" so none to my knowledge take into consideration that a small reported balance on one revolver is the best way to go, generally speaking, with respect to FICO scoring.

[Anonymous]

I managed to pull that feat last month and the result was -14 Equifax, -2 Transunion and -20 Experian. Two days later I let my Discover report and all points were restored. Sort of ridiculous if you think too much about it! 

[masscredit]

I lost about 15 when I did this last year.  Someone mentioned letting a very small balance report on each card. I might try that someday to see what happens. 

[HeavenOhio]

For an optimized score, leave a small balance on one card, not all of them. You'll be dinged for sure if all of your cards report balances. FICO recommends that less than half of your cards report balances, but a single card is the best choice to get the best score. In my case, my Equifax score gets dinged if a second card (out of seven) reports a balance, but the other two bureaus let me report small balances on three cards without a ding. Have the balance report on a major card rather than a store card. For me, Experian cares about that.

[SouthJamaica]

OK I have all but one of the accounts reporting at zero, and the last holdout coming up any day.

Unfortunately it's that whacky PenFed PLOC.... I never know when it's going to report or what day's balance it will report. But I'm trying to hold that, and everything else, at zero reporting.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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@SouthJamaica wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I imagine you'll see a drop on all 3 as well, further proof that simulators are garbage

---

Yeah well we don't know. Maybe the simulator is right, and our collective wisdom is wrong.If I can pull this off, we'll find out soon enough.

I hope I can manage to get the 2 accounts left to report at zero. They're both PLOC's and I've been having a devil of a time figuring out their reporting schedules and policies.

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Best I can tell, the Fico simulator doesnot includes the zero cards/zero utilization "discontinuity" in its score estimation.

I have a hunch you're right on that, but one would think the simulator would be using the same algorithm if it was going to have any value. Imagine a flight simulator that ignored wind speed.

PS - I checked out the Beta version of the 3B report yesterday. For those that generated a 3B after 3/15/17, you should be able to go in and look at a Beta version of your report.

---

Because the FICO algorithm is one of the most closely guarded pieces of intellectual property on the planet, I find it highly likely that most/all score simulators are missing pieces of it BY DESIGN, in an effort to foil attempts (like ours) at reverse-engineering the thing.  After all, if figuring out *exactly* what worked were as easy as using a simulator, would the enthusiastic user base of these forums even have a reason to exist?  I think not.

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Not just that, but they can't mimic it exactly without legal reprocussions. I do this for a job, and if the overlap gets to be too high, they can sue us for infringement. MyFico may be leaving that data point out on purpose as most people will see a boost just from reducing utilization in general.

[Anonymous]

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@HeavenOhio wrote:

For an optimized score, leave a small balance on one card, not all of them. You'll be dinged for sure if all of your cards report balances.

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Not necessarily true.  I can let all of my cards report small balances and my scores are unchanged from letting just a single card report a small balance.  I've never played with letting all cards report small balances with one or more reporting larger (greater than single-digit utilization) balances, but on my profile number of cards reporting balances does not impact my FICO 08 scores.  I've never looked at other scoring models though with this, just FICO 08.