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@alotta
"I went through the credit crunch of 2009 and 2010 and ending up with several chargeoffs and refuse to let myself end up there again."
Been there myself
@Anonymous wrote:
I let 3% utilization balance report because in August my Fico dropped 20 points when a zero revolving balancd was reported. The next month I left a small 3% balance and my Fico went back up 20 points.
This seems a little dramatic. Do you only have a single account? I'm curious about your profile that could cause such a sway in scores monthly with such a slight difference in debt.
This has been debated over and over again on here and all over the web. It all comes down to your personal situation and what works best for you. If you're hawkish with your scores and have a particular financial goal in mind whether to score the hottest card on the market or planning for a mortgage a couple of years down the road. To understand it though we have to figure out the deifinition that FICO is scoring on.
To calculate its score, FICO looks at five different factors:
Credit utilization components
The credit utilization category has six subcomponents:
FICO's scoring model gives a different weight to each of those factors: Credit utilization accounts for nearly a third (30 percent) of a FICO score, making it a very important factor for borrowers to understand.
So, looking at the 6 components of Utilization there's much more in play than just a balance to limit ratio. Taking a look into these is what cause the discussion as they can be interpreted differently with experience. So, the ones that stick out to me regarding the OP and CC's would be:
There are additional reasons why a single one-size-fits-all utilization percentage cut-off cannot realistically apply to credit scoring and why that’s OK:
Now with this information taking the eagle eye view of combined limits utilization of 10% or less comes into play depending on how your limits look and if you favored a card for bonus / points / cashback / trying to make it grow with time and use. Personally I focus on each individual limit rather than the overall limit of them combined. I set a mental limit of 10% of the individual limit and auto PIF each month and don't chase the statement date at all. Does it work? For some it will and some it won't as it's subjective to each person on how they want to manage their spending each month. For me it has resulted in exponential growth in limits, higher scores (830's), and simplified budget planning.
Forget the old 30% idea
Start by throwing out the old notion about 30 percent usage being OK. FICO, the company that originated credit scoring and is still the largest provider of such scores, has long advised score-conscious consumers to be far more stingy about credit use. The company had told people to keep it to 10 percent or less, says Anthony Sprauve, spokesman for myFico.com, FICO's consumer website.
More recently, the company's stance has softened he says. Its studies indicate that there is only a minimal score difference between consumers who limit their usage to less than 20 percent and those who keep it to less than 10 percent, he says.
That can be good news for consumers who want to actually use lower-limit credit cards for more than token purchases.
According to FICO surveys, credit scoring "high achievers -- those with a score north of 750 -- they're using an average of 7 percent of their available credit," Sprauve says. "I think 20 percent, for a lot of people, is more realistic. I would rather talk about that as a realistic goal that they can attain, rather than something that might feel like a stretch and out of reach."
Fun little tidbit of information I came across while looking for more reference points:
(though not as much as the record holder in the Guinness Book of World Records, who has 1,497 cards with a $1.7 million credit line and nearly perfect credit).
I think we have someone here shooting for that goal sitting at north of 800K inavailable credit which just seems rediculous but, hey.... someone's gotta do it I suppose.
If you're bored and looking for more insight into all of the catagories take a read here:
http://www.bestcredit.com/credit-ratings-advanced-strategies-for-fico-scoring/
@austinguy907 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I let 3% utilization balance report because in August my Fico dropped 20 points when a zero revolving balancd was reported. The next month I left a small 3% balance and my Fico went back up 20 points.This seems a little dramatic. Do you only have a single account? I'm curious about your profile that could cause such a sway in scores monthly with such a slight difference in debt.
A 15 to 20 point drop is common and expected when zero balance is allowed to report on all revolving credit cards. There are even reason codes for this published by Fico and their affiliates. [See paste below]. I always pay in full but allow balances to show on statements so they get reported. Having a balance report to the CRAs does not mean a person must carry a balance, just that a positive balance gets reported on a statement.
Note: AMEX charge cards and in some cases AU credit cards are not counted. One month I had balances reporting on my AMEX and an AU card only. I was flagged for no revolvers reporting balances and my 3B report showed 0% Ag UT%
I did that last month, AmEx charge card only showing a balance and it did not count for util and it dropped me 18 points. No change in FAKO scores at CK, but my real scores all dropped a minimum of 8 points. My score as shown by AmEx actually dropped over 30 points! Let a different card report this month, we shall see if they all rebound.
I have had zero other changes, no new cards applied for in months, in fact an inq fell to six months old from a car purchase so it should have only been getting better, not dropping.
@Anonymous wrote:I did that last month, AmEx charge card only showing a balance and it did not count for util and it dropped me 18 points. No change in FAKO scores at CK, but my real scores all dropped a minimum of 8 points. My score as shown by AmEx actually dropped over 30 points! Let a different card report this month, we shall see if they all rebound.
I have had zero other changes, no new cards applied for in months, in fact an inq fell to six months old from a car purchase so it should have only been getting better, not dropping.
Thanks for the data point.
FYI - inquiries count their full amount for 12 months in Fico scoring although some posters believe differently. Six months is a non event for an inquiry. Typical impact of an inquiry is 5 points but may range from 0 points to 10 points depending on your scorecard assignment and how many inquiries under 12 months age are in your profile.
I'm at the point where I let things report, sometimes PIF, sometimes don't. Usually carry balances only on BT cards, but not always. Occasionally pay before statement cuts, but never on all cards. Stress free, go with the flow.
When I first started building I micro managed. I no longer have a need for that.
Live and let live.
I PIF every month and have a balance report, so why not just do both?
As an example, on one card I'll run about $3,000 a month through it, spread over the course of the month. Come statement time, I'll have a statement balance of around $3,000 and a balance of about $4,500. I pay the $3,000 statement balance so I don't accrue any interest and continue on my way. By the time the next statement closes, the balance has gone from about $1,500 to $3,000 and I repeat the cycle. I never pay interest and I show a balance at the same time.
That said, I'm not sure having balances report is doing jack for my score since I'm told (via this forum) that FICO ignores utilization on my two primary cards, though I do see a fluctuation of 3-4 points any given month (though this may be due to overall utilizaton rather than utilization on individual cards).
@iced wrote:I PIF every month and have a balance report, so why not just do both?
As an example, on one card I'll run about $3,000 a month through it, spread over the course of the month. Come statement time, I'll have a statement balance of around $3,000 and a balance of about $4,500. I pay the $3,000 statement balance so I don't accrue any interest and continue on my way. By the time the next statement closes, the balance has gone from about $1,500 to $3,000 and I repeat the cycle. I never pay interest and I show a balance at the same time.
That said, I'm not sure having balances report is doing jack for my score since I'm told (via this forum) that FICO ignores utilization on my two primary cards, though I do see a fluctuation of 3-4 points any given month (though this may be due to overall utilizaton rather than utilization on individual cards).
Not sure what your "primary" cards are but, almost all store cards are revolvers as are credit cards. These should factor into revolving utilization [unless you have AU status - then they may or may not count]. Of course, AMEX charge cards (1 month payment term) are not revolvers even if they show in that category on reports.
The amount of balance you allow to report on credit cards relative to credit limits are factors in Fico scoring. As a general rule for best score potential it is advisable to:
1) Keep reported utilization on individual cards under 30%.
2) Keep aggregate utilization (all cards combined) under 9%.
If the CL of the card in the above example is $6000 and you allow $3100 to report, the card utilization is above 50%. This could be costing you some points relative to reporting a $2900 balance (below 50% utilization). Now if you have 4 cards and a total CL of $30k you would want total of statement balances to be less than $2700 (9%) for best scoring result relative to the aggregate utilization factor..