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Utilization vs. Paying in Full

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Meanmchine
Super Contributor

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full

@alotta

"I went through the credit crunch of 2009 and 2010 and ending up with several chargeoffs and refuse to let  myself end up there again."

 

 

Been there myself

>3/2016 EX 644 CK-TU 642 CK-EQ 660 WalMart- 671.
>5/2025 All 3 reports 845 - 850(F8) F9s = all 850 but my app finger is still twitching
Message 11 of 23
austinguy907
Valued Contributor

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full


@Anonymous wrote:
I let 3% utilization balance report because in August my Fico dropped 20 points when a zero revolving balancd was reported. The next month I left a small 3% balance and my Fico went back up 20 points.

This seems a little dramatic.  Do you only have a single account?  I'm curious about your profile that could cause such a sway in scores monthly with such a slight difference in debt.

Message 12 of 23
austinguy907
Valued Contributor

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full

This has been debated over and over again on here and all over the web.  It all comes down to your personal situation and what works best for you.  If you're hawkish with your scores and have a particular financial goal in mind whether to score the hottest card on the market or planning for a mortgage a couple of years down the road.  To understand it though we have to figure out the deifinition that FICO is scoring on.

 

To calculate its score, FICO looks at five different factors:

  1. How you've handled credit (otherwise known as your payment history). (35%)
  2. Your credit utilization ratio -- how much total debt you have versus how much credit is available.  (30%)
  3. Your length of credit history.  (15%)
  4. How much new credit you have. (10%)
  5. Your  credit mix -- the variety of loans you have. (10%)

Credit utilization components
The credit utilization category has six subcomponents:

  • The amount of debt still owed to lenders.
  • The number of accounts with debt outstanding.
  • The amount of debt owed on individual accounts.
  • The lack of a certain type of loan, in some cases.
  • The percentage of credit lines in use on revolving accounts, like credit cards.
  • The percentage of debt still owed on installment loans, like mortgages.

FICO's scoring model gives a different weight to each of those factors: Credit utilization accounts for nearly a third (30 percent) of a FICO score, making it a very important factor for borrowers to understand.

 

 

So, looking at the 6 components of Utilization there's much more in play than just a balance to limit ratio.  Taking a look into these is what cause the discussion as they can be interpreted differently with experience.  So, the ones that stick out to me regarding the OP and CC's would be:

 

  • The number of accounts with debt outstanding.

 

  • The amount of debt owed on individual accounts.

 

  • The percentage of credit lines in use on revolving accounts, like credit cards.

 

 

 

There are additional reasons why a single one-size-fits-all utilization percentage cut-off cannot realistically apply to credit scoring and why that’s OK:

  • A particular utilization range may have points assigned differently for individual cards than for combined account percentages. For example, your score might change when utilization on an individual card reaches a certain percentage range, yet it might not change when the average of all your cards combined hits that same percentage or range.
  • Utilization ranges and points that apply to one person’s credit experience may not necessarily apply to a different set of experiences. That’s due to the "multiple score card" system, by which credit scores use different scoring factors and different weighting of the factors for different sets of credit experiences. Furthermore, the same set of utilization measures might not always apply in the same way to the same person, as the indicators of credit experience, such as length of credit history, number of accounts, payment history, etc., change over time.
  • Whether talking about utilization or any other set of credit scoring factors, we should never expect to see actual numbers, such as 30 percent, since this level of detail would only be meaningful when actually calculating scores, which, of course, requires much more information and analytical ability than any nonmathematician without access to credit bureau data and proprietary scoring formulas can be expected to have.

 

Now with this information taking the eagle eye view of combined limits utilization of 10% or less comes into play depending on how your limits look and if you favored a card for bonus / points / cashback / trying to make it grow with time and use.  Personally I focus on each individual limit rather than the overall limit of them combined.  I set a mental limit of 10% of the individual limit and auto PIF each month and don't chase the statement date at all.  Does it work?  For some it will and some it won't as it's subjective to each person on how they want to manage their spending each month.  For me it has resulted in exponential growth in limits, higher scores (830's), and simplified budget planning.  

 

 

Forget the old 30% idea
Start by throwing out the old notion about 30 percent usage being OK. FICO, the company that originated credit scoring and is still the largest provider of such scores, has long advised score-conscious consumers to be far more stingy about credit use. The company had told people to keep it to 10 percent or less, says Anthony Sprauve, spokesman for myFico.com, FICO's consumer website.

 

More recently, the company's stance has softened he says. Its studies indicate that there is only a minimal score difference between consumers who limit their usage to less than 20 percent and those who keep it to less than 10 percent, he says. 

That can be good news for consumers who want to actually use lower-limit credit cards for more than token purchases.

According to FICO surveys, credit scoring "high achievers -- those with a score north of 750 -- they're using an average of 7 percent of their available credit," Sprauve says. "I think 20 percent, for a lot of people, is more realistic. I would rather talk about that as a realistic goal that they can attain, rather than something that might feel like a stretch and out of reach." 

 

Fun little tidbit of information I came across while looking for more reference points:

(though not as much as the record holder in the Guinness Book of World Records, who has 1,497 cards with a $1.7 million credit line and nearly perfect credit).

 

I think we have someone here shooting for that goal sitting at north of 800K inavailable credit which just seems rediculous but, hey.... someone's gotta do it I suppose.

 

If you're bored and looking for more insight into all of the catagories take a read here:

http://www.bestcredit.com/credit-ratings-advanced-strategies-for-fico-scoring/

Message 13 of 23
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full


@austinguy907 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:
I let 3% utilization balance report because in August my Fico dropped 20 points when a zero revolving balancd was reported. The next month I left a small 3% balance and my Fico went back up 20 points.

This seems a little dramatic.  Do you only have a single account?  I'm curious about your profile that could cause such a sway in scores monthly with such a slight difference in debt.


A 15 to 20 point drop is common and expected when zero balance is allowed to report on all revolving credit cards. There are even reason codes for this published by Fico and their affiliates. [See paste below].  I always pay in full but allow balances to show on statements so they get reported. Having a balance report to the CRAs does not mean a person must carry a balance, just that a positive balance gets reported on a statement. 

 

Score factor codes.gif

 

Note: AMEX charge cards and in some cases AU credit cards are not counted. One month I had balances reporting on my AMEX and an AU card only. I was flagged for no revolvers reporting balances and my 3B report showed 0% Ag UT%

 

3B 8-2016 at 0%.gif

 

Score factors 3B report.gif

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 14 of 23
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full

I did that last month, AmEx charge card only showing a balance and it did not count for util and it dropped me 18 points. No change in FAKO scores at CK, but my real scores all dropped a minimum of 8 points. My score as shown by AmEx actually dropped over 30 points! Let a different card report this month, we shall see if they all rebound.

 

I have had zero other changes, no new cards applied for in months, in fact an inq fell to six months old from a car purchase so it should have only been getting better, not dropping.

Message 15 of 23
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full


@Anonymous wrote:

I did that last month, AmEx charge card only showing a balance and it did not count for util and it dropped me 18 points. No change in FAKO scores at CK, but my real scores all dropped a minimum of 8 points. My score as shown by AmEx actually dropped over 30 points! Let a different card report this month, we shall see if they all rebound.

 

I have had zero other changes, no new cards applied for in months, in fact an inq fell to six months old from a car purchase so it should have only been getting better, not dropping.


Thanks for the data point. 

 

FYI - inquiries count their full amount for 12 months in Fico scoring although some posters believe differently. Six months is a non event for an inquiry. Typical impact of an inquiry is 5 points but may range from 0 points to 10 points depending on your scorecard assignment and how many inquiries under 12 months age are in your profile.

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 16 of 23
lhcole77
Valued Contributor

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full

I'm at the point where I let things report, sometimes PIF, sometimes don't. Usually carry balances only on BT cards, but not always. Occasionally pay before statement cuts, but never on all cards. Stress free, go with the flow.

 

When I first started building I micro managed. I no longer have a need for that.

 

Live and let live.

Message 17 of 23
Blodreina
Established Contributor

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full

Message 18 of 23
iced
Valued Contributor

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full

I PIF every month and have a balance report, so why not just do both?

 

As an example, on one card I'll run about $3,000 a month through it, spread over the course of the month. Come statement time, I'll have a statement balance of around $3,000 and a balance of about $4,500. I pay the $3,000 statement balance so I don't accrue any interest and continue on my way. By the time the next statement closes, the balance has gone from about $1,500 to $3,000 and I repeat the cycle. I never pay interest and I show a balance at the same time.

 

That said, I'm not sure having balances report is doing jack for my score since I'm told (via this forum) that FICO ignores utilization on my two primary cards, though I do see a fluctuation of 3-4 points any given month (though this may be due to overall utilizaton rather than utilization on individual cards).

Message 19 of 23
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Utilization vs. Paying in Full


@iced wrote:

I PIF every month and have a balance report, so why not just do both?

 

As an example, on one card I'll run about $3,000 a month through it, spread over the course of the month. Come statement time, I'll have a statement balance of around $3,000 and a balance of about $4,500. I pay the $3,000 statement balance so I don't accrue any interest and continue on my way. By the time the next statement closes, the balance has gone from about $1,500 to $3,000 and I repeat the cycle. I never pay interest and I show a balance at the same time.

 

That said, I'm not sure having balances report is doing jack for my score since I'm told (via this forum) that FICO ignores utilization on my two primary cards, though I do see a fluctuation of 3-4 points any given month (though this may be due to overall utilizaton rather than utilization on individual cards).


Not sure what your "primary" cards are but, almost all store cards are revolvers as are credit cards. These should factor into revolving utilization [unless you have AU status - then they may or may not count]. Of course, AMEX charge cards (1 month payment term) are not revolvers even if they show in that category on reports.

 

The amount of balance you allow to report on credit cards relative to credit limits are factors in Fico scoring. As a general rule for best score potential it is advisable to:

1) Keep reported utilization on individual cards under 30%. 

2) Keep aggregate utilization (all cards combined) under 9%.

 

If the CL of the card in the above example is $6000 and you allow $3100 to report, the card utilization is above 50%. This could be costing you some points relative to reporting a $2900 balance (below 50% utilization). Now if you have 4 cards and a total CL of $30k you would want total of statement balances to be less than $2700 (9%) for best scoring result relative to the aggregate utilization factor..

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 20 of 23
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