cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Wild Point Swing Help

tag
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Wild Point Swing Help


@Varsity_Lu wrote:

@NoHardLimits wrote:

 

I tend to agree with your belief that the large point swings have to do with reported balances.  Even with my old/thick profile, my score can swing by 30 points on FICO8 if I accidentally have all accounts report zero (22 points for primary cardholder accounts and 8 points for AU accounts).  But as long as the reported balances don't cross some high utilization threshold, I don't envision such a large point swing for non-zero balance situations.  Even having more than 50% of accounts reporting small balances shouldn't move the needle that much.  

 

I now designate one of my primary cardholder accounts to always report a balance.  I also make sure that my one AU account always reports a balance.  That way I have been able to avoid the all zero (no revolving balances) penalty.

This is basically what I am going to do. I'm going to tweak which cards report and trim it down a bit for her. Basically AZEO but actually 2 because one will be an AU card. I'll report back in a month or two and see if things stabilize.


Sounds reasonable. Just to clarify my understanding ... Your plan is for her to report small balances (under 9% card UT) on 2 of her primary cards - say a daily driver card and a card which you are AU on. Beyond that, you will report a small balance on one of your 2 cards which she is AU on. I would suggest you typically report a small balance on a 2nd card account as well.

 

It is true Fico 8 does not penalize significantly for multiple cards reporting balances. It would be unusual to lose more than 10 points for too many cards with balances even at 50% reporting. The more significant penalties come from "no recent revolving activity" (primary accounts) and to a lesser degree no AU account activity - for the AU card holder.

 

On average - based on poster data over the years - I'd put the no recent revolving activity penalty at 20 +/-5 and the no AU activity penalty at 10 +/-5.  The points penalty is affected by scorecard.

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 21 of 26
Realist
Regular Contributor

Re: Wild Point Swing Help

There's a lot to chew on here.  I'm going to go with her credit profile is much to thin, perhaps young, as the only reason to be producing these kinds of swings.   After carefully reading through each reply, I can can offer my data points.

 

I do have to ask the question, outside of revolving credit, what else do you have going on in her name?  Revolving credit isn't the only game in town.  For instance, I have dozens, of revolving credit lines in pristine condition, with holy hell credit lines, and utilizations scores ideal.  I also have dozens of closed installment loans, ranging from multiple car loans paid off, to multiple, yes over a half dozen home refinances within a decade successfully paid on, to even energy efficient loans paid off, to personal loans paid off, to offroad loans paid off,  to the tune of near 40+ accounts on record.  Still holding the current home loan, becuase it makes sense at a low 2% rate.  I'll get a random loan if it makes sense, for anything once in a while.  Abuse the opportunity to carry multiple types of credit.   If you aren't here, then you just don't know how powerful that is for producing a stable profile.

 

I've said this before, and I'm not afraid to say this again, holding a revolving line of credit, three or so cards, does not always make for a thick credit profile.   I happen to think it's pretty thin.  You have to invision what you think the lender sees.  A FICO score is topical, it's not the substance that lies beneath.    You can manipulate a FICO score.  I know this first hand, as we've done it with multiple candidates.  They were denied 3/4 of the time for loans, even with just shy of 800 FICO scores, because their credit profiles were young and thin, or questionable with questionable payment histories.  Score swings varied wildly.  Most people speculate, take educated guesses, and some people do.  Careful who you take advice from.  At the end of the day, we're all here to learn from the wonderful world of accumulated stories.

 

The armor of a well developed credit profile doesn't  bend or break as easily as a of a thin profile.  Score movement can be significantly less impactful.  Sometimes, your score can even increase with adverse conditions, as I've experienced this a few times.    I've posted a few of these examples.

 

Time, and routine, and girth of your credit profile.  That will solidify the score and reduce the randomness.

 

 

I'm reminded by this snippet:

FICO scoring and these forums

 

As users of this forum have or will come to learn, there are certain observations that can be said about FICO scoring:

 

- we have come to know GENERALLY how FICO scoring works,

- we have come to know A LOT about how certain aspects of scoring works, BUT

- we have come to know that we do not know EXACTLY how all of FICO scoring works.

 

FICO's approach to performing credit scoring is proprietary, meaning that it is private. The folks at FICO knows how their scoring systems work. The rest of us take increasingly educated guesses at learning the finer points of those scoring models, and we come to forums like this to learn for ourselves how to understand, improve and manage our scores, and to help others to learn as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

$XXX,XXX in credit lines. First digit isn't a one or two.
4-5 weeks in free credit reward vacations, booked through 2028.
$X,XXX in bank rewards in only 12 months.
I like FREE...

800+ FICO.

Making all numbers dance on a financial ledger.
Abuse that score responsibility for maximum gain.
Message 22 of 26
Varsity_Lu
Established Contributor

Re: Wild Point Swing Help

@Realist 

 

Oh, her file is thin and young for sure. Her oldest reporting account is a little over 6 years old, but it's a closed Victoria Secret card from manh years ago. She has 4 open credit cards and several are newer (9 -12 months old) and that's it. We had a mortgage many, many years ago, but that is long gone from her file. She also had a few student loans from the late 90s that we paid off before Y2K. We have no loans or debt of any kind and only got i to the credit card game a year or so ago to save money on groceries.

 

Like I said, we are not really concerned about her score since we don't need and aren't looking for loans, buying just want to find out how to stabilize the swings. I've probably been too loosey-goosey in how I pay her accounts which is what is probably causing this. I'll buckle down and get very consistent with which account smms are reporting and hopefully that fixes it 

Blue Cash PreferredBlue Cash Everyday (AU)Hilton HonorsSavorQuicksilverVoice Rewards + Perks Checking
Mechanics Savings BankHuntington National BankCapital One, N.A.American Express National BankFidelity Investments
FICO® 8: 806 (Eq) · 794 (Ex) · 812 (TU)

Message 23 of 26
Varsity_Lu
Established Contributor

Re: Wild Point Swing Help

@Thomas_Thumb 

 

Yes. She has 4 cards and I'll only let her Savor report a balance since I am an AU on that card. I will also let my BCE report a small balance since she is an AU on that.  So 1 of 4 personal cards and 1 of 1 AU cards. 2 of 5 total. 

 

My Savor will also report, but she is not an AU on it. I am carrying a balance on it since it has another year of 0%, but that doesn't negatively affect me much since it is under 25% utilization and I have more accounts than she does.

Blue Cash PreferredBlue Cash Everyday (AU)Hilton HonorsSavorQuicksilverVoice Rewards + Perks Checking
Mechanics Savings BankHuntington National BankCapital One, N.A.American Express National BankFidelity Investments
FICO® 8: 806 (Eq) · 794 (Ex) · 812 (TU)

Message 24 of 26
Thomas_Thumb
Senior Contributor

Re: Wild Point Swing Help

Let us know how things work out (data points). BTW - only the old Fico "mortgage" scores factor in AU accounts for the personal accounts with balance metric. With Fico 8 there is no 2 of 5 - just 1 of 4 and AU activity (1 of 2) in your example.

 

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 25 of 26
Realist
Regular Contributor

Re: Wild Point Swing Help


@Varsity_Lu wrote:

@Realist 

 

Oh, her file is thin and young for sure. Her oldest reporting account is a little over 6 years old, but it's a closed Victoria Secret card from manh years ago. She has 4 open credit cards and several are newer (9 -12 months old) and that's it. We had a mortgage many, many years ago, but that is long gone from her file. She also had a few student loans from the late 90s that we paid off before Y2K. We have no loans or debt of any kind and only got i to the credit card game a year or so ago to save money on groceries.

 

Like I said, we are not really concerned about her score since we don't need and aren't looking for loans, buying just want to find out how to stabilize the swings. I've probably been too loosey-goosey in how I pay her accounts which is what is probably causing this. I'll buckle down and get very consistent with which account smms are reporting and hopefully that fixes it 


Age will likely fix this.  I find if you land in the 600's or 700's range, your total score isn't enough to offset noticable fluxuations.  Score can bounce wildly.     Time seems to be the only thing that remedies this (age).  Doing all the right things.

$XXX,XXX in credit lines. First digit isn't a one or two.
4-5 weeks in free credit reward vacations, booked through 2028.
$X,XXX in bank rewards in only 12 months.
I like FREE...

800+ FICO.

Making all numbers dance on a financial ledger.
Abuse that score responsibility for maximum gain.
Message 26 of 26
Advertiser Disclosure: The offers that appear on this site are from third party advertisers from whom FICO receives compensation.