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FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.

Your FICO® Scores can impact your loan interest rates, terms, approvals and more.

FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.

I have watched my score drop drastically for a small increase or decrease in a credit card balance. When that charge reverses, the score does not go back up even though not one other debt in the ratio has changed. A credit card increases by 1,000 and I drop 20 points. I pay off that 1,000 and my Score goes up 8. Not a single change in other debt balances. Anyone from FICO want to explain this?

Score simulator tells me if I pay off 1300 in debt my score will increase 20 points. I took a screenshot clearly showing. Three days later I LITERALLY pay off 1300, let it post to my credit, it shows up in my alerts, and it didn't TOUCH my score. Can FICO explain this too? I have the screenshot of that too. This sure sounds like a scam to help the banks.

I am really quite tired of this disproportionate game. Dropping a score unGodly amounts and inching them up upon reversal of the exact same condition and exact same debt ratio and mix. I should have a score well over 700. I can't believe there has not yet been a class action suit by thousands of people. I wonder why the credit companies won't release their algorithms but more importantly I want to know why the simulator did nothing, and who will review and adjust my score appropriately.
Message 1 of 20
19 REPLIES 19
Community Leader
Super Contributor

Re: FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.

Welcome to the forums!  My comments below in blue.

 


@Aimeelynn708 wrote:
I have watched my score drop drastically for a small increase or decrease in a credit card balance. When that charge reverses, the score does not go back up even though not one other debt in the ratio has changed. A credit card increases by 1,000 and I drop 20 points. I pay off that 1,000 and my Score goes up 8. Not a single change in other debt balances. Anyone from FICO want to explain this?

Paying off a debt does not in itself alter the score.  That's because the amount can be be paid without it changing (immediately) the amounts that have been reported to the three bureaus.  It's the amounts that are appearing on the reports that will affect the score, and these can take a while to materialize.

BTW, it sounds like you may be under the impression that the folks who post on this forum are people who work for FICO.  None of us are FICO employees.  We are just people who developed an interest in improving our scores and kinda gathered together over time to help each other do that.  Many of us do not use the myFICO Ultimate credit monitoring service (CMS) either, since it is pretty costly.
It sounds like you are using some kind of CMS to track your scores (and possibly your reports).  Can you tell us what you are using?  E.g. Credit Karma, Credit Check Total, myFICO Ultimate, etc? 


Score simulator tells me if I pay off 1300 in debt my score will increase 20 points. I took a screenshot clearly showing. Three days later I LITERALLY pay off 1300, let it post to my credit, it shows up in my alerts, and it didn't TOUCH my score. Can FICO explain this too? I have the screenshot of that too. This sure sounds like a scam to help the banks.

There are lots of simulators -- typically one made by every CMS out there.  I don't think there is a single one that is reliable.  The folks here will be be able to give you much more reliable advice and guidance about how to improve your scores.  Let us know if that is something you'd like some help with.

I am really quite tired of this disproportionate game. Dropping a score unGodly amounts and inching them up upon reversal of the exact same condition and exact same debt ratio and mix. I should have a score well over 700. I can't believe there has not yet been a class action suit by thousands of people. I wonder why the credit companies won't release their algorithms but more importantly I want to know why the simulator did nothing, and who will review and adjust my score appropriately.

 

Like I said, the folks here will be glad to help you out.   Just let us know if that's what you want.  Do bear in mind that it may take a few months to implement the short-term recommendations, and then longer to implement longer-term fixes.  Best wishes...


 

 

 

 

 

Message 2 of 20
Super Contributor

Re: FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.

There are a few things you need to understand here in order to change your perspective on this subject.

 

First, simulators are trash.  You shouldn't use them IMO.  Just because a simulator says you'll gain 20 points doesn't mean you are supposed to get 20 points no matter what.  Everyone has different profiles made up of an infinite amount of data points relative to one another, far more than any crappy simulator can ever take into consideration.  You taking screenshots of what the simulator says isn't going to buy you anything.  A simulator is no different than you asking any person on this forum what they think would happen to your score if you did X.  You wouldn't bash one of them or screenshot their text if they "got it wrong" as it's just a guess.  I'd actually argue that the well versed members of this forum would provide you with a better guess than a simulator could.

 

Second, if Y event causes your score to drop 10 points, reversing Y event causes your score to gain 10 points.  That's a fact.  You're saying that a balance increase of Y causes you to drop X points and that reversing this and reporting a balance decrease of Y causes you go gain back less than X points.  I can assure you that there's another factor or factors at play here.  All this means is that something else changed with your file at the same time.  You'd have to look at your CR and compare it before/after to try and determine what that is.

 

To go along with the last point, alerts received do not have to be at all related to the score change provided at the time of the alert.  Alerts are received for alertable events (like a balance change, new inquiry, etc).  There are plenty of non-alertable events though that are happening all the time with your profile to which you'll never see an alert.  Things like negative information falling off, accounts aging, inquiries falling off, etc.  Your score can change all the time from non-alertable events.  Where you run into trouble is when you see an alert pop up and then you believe that the score change provided at the time was only influenced by that alert.  That's often not the case.

 

You didn't really provide us with enough information about your revolving accounts to give you much advice.  You'd need to list out all of your accounts with their current balance / current limit for us to determine what you have going on.  You say you raise a balance $1000 and then lower it $1000.  If this is a $1200 limit card, that could be very impactful.  If it's a $12,000 limit card, a $1000 balance change may have no impact on score at all.  Also generally speaking, the fewer revolvers you have the more volatile balance changes may be.  With fewer revolvers, generally your overall limits are smaller and as a percentage you have more accounts with balances reported.  If you can stop back in and provide some more info there we may be able to better explain what might be going on.

Message 3 of 20

Re: FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.

The simulator IS myFICO. It's not a third party. I pay monthly for it and for score monitoring.

I already stated above that I paid the card and then waited for it to post to credit agencies, and two weeks subsequent still no score increase whatsoever has been triggered, following the advice of myFICO themselves that I pay for. The 'algorithm' in their own simulator doesn't appear to work either. Interesting.
Message 4 of 20
Community Leader
Super Contributor

Re: FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.

This has been  my  experience with EX  only.

I've had 0 balance report twice, both time score dropped about 16 points. Had a different card report within days (2% utilization). All the points were regained on TU and EQ but EX only "gave" 14 back. 

 

The other example is one card reporting off cycle when AU was added, balance was high, score dropped 10 points. 

Statement cut within a week, again with about 2%, all points regained on TU and EQ, but only 7 for EX

 

There were absolutely no other changes. I pay for monitoring through EX with daily scores, and I've gotten the other two scores through CCT after balances updated. 

 

Again, this only happens with EX 

Message 5 of 20
Community Leader
Super Contributor

Re: FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.


@Aimeelynn708 wrote:
The simulator IS myFICO. It's not a third party. I pay monthly for it and for score monitoring.

I already stated above that I paid the card and then waited for it to post to credit agencies, and two weeks subsequent still no score increase whatsoever has been triggered, following the advice of myFICO themselves that I pay for. The 'algorithm' in their own simulator doesn't appear to work either. Interesting.

It's best to think of every CMS as a third party entity.  The myFICO CMS won't be more likely to provide you with a good simulator than any other CMS.  It's made by a completely different group of people than those who make the actual scoring algorithm (i.e. the designers of the scoring models and the developers who turn the model into computer code).

 

In your first paragraph you didn't mention allowing the $1000 to appear on the credit reports.  Later you describe a different situation where you paid $1300 and then in that situation let it appear on the reports. 

 

Don't hesitate to let us know if you decide you are interested in getting help with your scores.  As BBS mentions, we'll need to work with you about what is on your reports (in detail) before we can suggest next steps.

 

PS.  You mention paying monthly for the myFICO Ultimate.  Is that $30/mo or $40/mo?  Either way, you may end up deciding that you don't want to invest that kind of money for a service you don't like.  Many of us don't pay for that here.  We can suggest some far cheaper alternatives if you like (that are free or ultra-low cost).

Message 6 of 20

Re: FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.

Quite interesting. Thanks for the tip Remedios. I just paid off yet another credit card. Waiting to see what that does but although I still have a couple cards with decent balances, I'm sure I've whopperjawed the entire outfit now and it'll drop me 20 points, like some kid closes his eyes and spins a bottle each time. "Oh look it landed on "deep dive 20." Thanks for playing! Enjoy your 6% auto loan! Bank of America, you are welcome, wink wink. Thanks for using FICO!"

As I read I'm seeing that FICO is now introducing a score planner tool to map out specific tasks to increase scores. Not as a feature of joining myFICO but possibly a separate subscription. Isn't that savvy. More money. This whole org has got to be the biggest scam in economics history. Cancelling subscription. Not giving them my money to bull**bleep** me.
Message 7 of 20
Super Contributor

Re: FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.

OP and Rem, one thing you guys are still failing to understand is that your FICO score is a moment in time snapshot and takes into account only the information present on your CR at that exact time.  The algorithm doesn't and can't consider what your previous balance was on any given tradeline.  Like I said in my first reply above, any event (like a balance change) that causes X gain in a score will cause X drop in a score if it is exactly reversed.  If you guys are saying that you're seeing a different amount of points returning from the reversal of a scoring event, the reason that amount is different is due to another factor changing as well.

 

Example:  Someone can have only 1 small limit credit card with 95% utilization and bring it down to 1% utilization and see their FICO score go up 100 points.  The following month they may raise their reported utilization up from 1% to 95% and their same score would drop 100 points.  The algorithm doesn't see nor does it consider the 1% utilization from the previous month; it's only factoring in the newly returned to 95% utilization here.  100 points gained, then 100 points lost.  If the 100 points were gained, then only 91 points were lost from the utilization reversal, it's not because the algorithm isn't being fair with respect to the utilization reversal.  It simply means that there was another event that [positively] impacted score 9 points at play.

Message 8 of 20
Valued Contributor

Re: FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.


@Aimeelynn708 wrote:
The simulator IS myFICO. It's not a third party. I pay monthly for it and for score monitoring.

I already stated above that I paid the card and then waited for it to post to credit agencies, and two weeks subsequent still no score increase whatsoever has been triggered, following the advice of myFICO themselves that I pay for. The 'algorithm' in their own simulator doesn't appear to work either. Interesting.

The MyFico simulators are based on each of the CRA criteria, but they are not accurate because it does not take into consideration all of the factors.

 

Question, was all your accounts reporting a zero balance at the time you got your last score?

American Express: Platinum Charge & Optima
Barclays: Arrival+ WEMC
Capital One: Savor WMC & Venture VS
Chase: Freedom U VS & CSR VI
Citibank: AAdvantage Platinum WEMC
Elan/US Bank: Fidelity VS
Credit Union: Rewards Visa
FICO 08: (2.1.19) EX: 789 / EQ: 818 / TU: 791
Message 9 of 20

Re: FICO does not swing the pendulum equally.

I have a couple small loans plus five smaller credit cards ($2,000 or less credit limit) and all five cards had moderate to high balances and a score close to 700. Several months ago I had to charge a large car repair to one card of $1200 and my score dropped 22 points with that one transaction. Must have thrown my ratio WAY off. Couple months later I did score simulator and it said if I paid off $1300 in credit card balances my score could increase approx 20. I'm prepping too but a new vehicle for the first time in 8 years so I want it back up! I made regular minimum pymt on four and paid one off with a $1300 balance and not one point showed up. I subsequently made monthly pymts on the other four remaining since, which have also crossed over to credit reporting, and still it's not moved. This is ridiculous. There is no balance to this farce.
Message 10 of 20