I keep getting Four Squared!

[Dj4Money]

 I know what the deal is, but dealers keep acting dumb and expecting me to be dumb.

 I started with a '14 Focus ST. Okay a bit too expensive. Four Squared, soft pull, $1000 down, $440 month. no data on interest rate or price of the car. Unpacked it myself came up with about $25,800; TTL unknown and an interest rate around 8%.

 I tried Car Max; Santander max $15,000, 25% APR, no questions, just insurance, driver's license, sign and drive off. This was obtained at Car Max but I am fairly sure it extends to any Santander/Road Loans dealer in their network. In fact when I called they said as much... I reduced it down to $15,000; Santander came back with the same offer. But Capital One added $1,700 down, 14.99% APR,  $14,000 max; provided I show POI, references and SSI Card because of Transunion error (deceased).

 Now I came back from a local Ford dealer, it gets better. Salesperson comes back asked a bunch of questions about my negatives. I am assuming the bank wants to know this, started to write down my excuses/explaination but then "closer" stopped him and said he didn't need it. Inputed the info from my app (I did it online the night before).

 He (Salesman) comes backs talking about how the closer had to beat the banker about the head and shoulders to come up with 13.5%. They want me to close the deal, same stuff what Captial One demanded accept no downpayment required, maybe because it was a new car? I don't know because they didn't tell me what bank. They almost didn't tell me what APR but I still don't know the price of the car!

 Again I had to unpack it myself. I came up with roughly $1,000 over MSRP! We are talking about a basic Ford Fiesta S sedan, no options. $13,690 after rebate ($1,000), how did it get up to $15, xxx?

 Even with TTL, it's just over $14, 7xx or something. So they want to make $2,000 off this deal; $1,000 on the car itself and $1,000 as they'll get the rebate.

 They came back with $1,000 down, $310 a month for 72 months @13.5%

 Okay the Fiesta is unacceptable. It cost too much for what I get, I can get a '15 Hyundai Accent Sport Hatcback (Wagon) for the same price, full power with everything but sunroof, maybe even that, but I can't seem to find a manual transmssion with the sunroof.

 As it is, to find a stick Sport, the closest is in Washington State.

 This is starting to get out of hand. I am going to use this car as sort of a secured car loan. Pay on it for six months, pay slightly more than the min payment, maybe $1,000 to get the interest down to where the car is worth and then trade-it-in on something I want.

 Doesn't it mean it has to be cheap, uncomfortable, unfun to drive, crappy gas mileage, etc.

  Based on my stated income that's where I end up, about $15,000 so we'll see what conversations I end up having tomorrow, I may be broading a flight to Washington to see my friend much earlier than I expected, who recently moved to Tacoma.

[Hoya08]

Based on the $1000 down, $310 a month for 72-months, it appears the dealership trying to get you to to finance MSRP + TTL.

Have you worked out the numbers beforehand so you're not at a disadvantage at the dealership (anticipated sale price, estimated/actual APR based on your CS, and various term lengths)?  If the dealership numbers aren't close to what you have, tell them what you want.  Don't spend unecessary time trying to "unpack" their numbers.

[Anonymous]

Have you tried getting financed before you go into the dealerships. Say DCU? 

[DaUsMsB]

Not sure if DCU is an answer either.  I also didn't have luck with NFCU even as of December???  I then tried online with DCU on Dec 31st...i'm past the woot new year stage....so I was reading here...fun night huh? lol And I applied for my wife and I...got nothing in 2-4 days.  Where most people said yes DCU will answer within 1-2 days.  I was like...welp...another decline.  They did pull both our reports hard.  We only had our discharge ch 13 in March 2014.  Got a cap 1 car loan in may and a secure card from NFCU....nothing else until November...got crazy and got 4 cards for each of us...and tried to refinance Cap 1 with NFCU in December...no good.

So back on DCU...got our DCU denial Letters today 1/10/2015 after applying 12/31/2015.  Our scores were better than I expected...both Equifax...681 for her and 674 for me.  Never late on our current car (actually paid extra and a week or 2 early every time).  with our cards...always less than 2% (less than $50 total at anytime). 

DCU's Excuses (no counter offer - they list one on here if they wanted to)

* Bankruptcy - (filed in 2008 - discharged 3/2014)

* Credit to new to rate (ya of course)

* Excessive Number of new accounts (trying to rebuild of course)

* Serious Delinquincy, and Derogatory public record or collection field (all BK crap - we cleaned any other negatives we had as reflected in our score)
* Time since Deleinquency is too recent or unknown

* too many inquiries in last 12 months

We have enough saved to actually go pay cash for a car, but wanted a loan to rebuild.  I called Cap 1 since they already financed us last year to hopefully be nice....and NFCU since we have banked with them for years and they know how much money flows through our accounts.  Both said they would have to do a hard pull, which we cant afford unless we know we are going to get something.  I even offered to put 5k and 10k down...or more just to get them to say yes...they said nope...hard pull...and we can let you know.  We ended up going to dealer and they shopped loans for us (we told them we'd put 5k down).  So Cap 1 picked it up...and we got it for 6% (we got 12% last may for our 1st loan).  So we jumped on it and now have that new car.

So DCU isn't absolute either...it wasnt for me.  I am sticking with NFCU because we've had them for years, even before BK...and I hope to get lines of credit like everyone has here.  Good luck on hunting...it may just be you need to put a little more down.  I was wanting to entice the creditors by putting 5k+ down so driving out the door they'd already be on the positive side of things.

[StartingOver10]

OP, I think you will appreciate this link below.  I found a 4-square tutoral on youtube that is geared to the auto dealer sales rep. 

The reason I like to look at these training videos for car dealers is I can anticipate exactly what thye are going to do.  Besides, it is almost funny how dumb they think the average consumer is....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngIS3kJ_PFs

Naturally, I get rid of my vehicle before purchasing (or after) so I cut the trade out of the 4 square. Then have the financing lined up prior to walking in so all that leaves to discuss is the actual price of the vehicle. Which turns the 4-square upside down ...lol. It's the only way to negotiate fairly IMO.

[Dj4Money]

---

@StartingOver10 wrote:

OP, I think you will appreciate this link below.  I found a 4-square tutoral on youtube that is geared to the auto dealer sales rep. 

The reason I like to look at these training videos for car dealers is I can anticipate exactly what thye are going to do.  Besides, it is almost funny how dumb they think the average consumer is....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngIS3kJ_PFs

Naturally, I get rid of my vehicle before purchasing (or after) so I cut the trade out of the 4 square. Then have the financing lined up prior to walking in so all that leaves to discuss is the actual price of the vehicle. Which turns the 4-square upside down ...lol. It's the only way to negotiate fairly IMO.

---

 Thanks I feel you SO, I know how 4 square works, you just take the squares away from them. Selling your trade ahead of time helps, having your finacing in-line also helps as does the final piece, the price which you can get from several places.

 I knew all this, but the Ford dealer gave me the run around and didn't want to discount it's Fiesta ST's. I don't know where the threshold is if they are overcharging for a standard Fiesta and the final number comes out over $16,000.

 Plus they wanted $1,000 down which makes a $20 difference in the price, BIG F'IN Deal and on new cars that's hardly ever demanded unless your score is somewhere under 500, it's just an attempt for the dealer to make a few dollars extra; okay doc fees run about $700-$800.

 It could be Santander but I don't know, that would be a reason to raise the price of the car as well to cover the fee Santander demands, but they aren't on the Road Loans list of dealers in my area, so I doubt that.

 It sounds like Capital One because there's another inqury on my report.

  I have many things moving around here. I can reach Capital One's POI $1,800 but it won't be until the end of the month. In the meantime, I have been cleared to work for Uber, Lyft and I'll be going to a Postmate's orientation on Thurs.

 I would like to start working before I make my next move.

  Otherwise I would just apply for a Blank Check, they keep sending me pre-approvals. They approved a used car from Car Max already, I see no reason for them not to do it again with a new car.

  DaUs - 

 I am going to try Logix on Monday, it can't get any worse than it is now and because of my relationship, even though it's new maybe I can get a better rate, they use different underwriting and get a better score, there last lender pull was 630 EX. 

 Seems some dealers are pulling a FICO 08 which puts me between 614-618. I wish I could pull my actual TU score since it's been steadly going up as well and this might be the metric Capital One is using even if they pulled both EX and TU here in Califronia as proven by my list of inquries.

 I wouldn't worry about inquries if they happen within a set time window they only count as one. However some lenders don't like them. I am rate shopping in a way, so it's legit.

 Just trying to get the most car I can get for whatever I've approved for. The most fun, with good mileage.....

[Anonymous]

If you get preapproved, try dealing with the internet sales reps. They don't make commission usually, and will email you an itemized bill before you step foot on the lot. Just find what you like, test drive as many cars as you want, then go home. Do negotiating online. No pressure like when they are standing in front of you interrupting your thoughts, and trying to confuse you.

Also when you get the offer in writing, you can shoot it to a competitor and tell them to beat it and they get your business. Just make sure all extras are included like transportation fees, delivery fees etc. I truly detest car buying. I've bought two cars this way. And got great deals.

[Anonymous]

Have you checked out the tax, title, license calculator on the carmax website? Or you could just get the fees for title, license, registration etc from your DMV. Some states have use tax, or personal property tax either instead of, or in addition to sales tax.

[Creditaddict]

If you want  a ford you need to TRUECAR it and then you have your price... No 4 square needed when price is done before you get there.

I'm SHOCKED that they can't get Ford Credit to take you... I can give you salesperson for Sunrise Ford, they have always treated me pretty well over phone, online and in person despite that I have not bought anything but I also have X plan so I can skip some of the BS but that's what truecar does for you or carmax!

[Dj4Money]

 Thanks CA, no Ford's at the point. I can get a loaded Accent 5 Door for less and I did!

 
 Details to come. When I e-mailed you, I told you 6.99% right? Well the dealer games continue, they never submitted my app until today when I said I was picking it up tomorrow.

 The Dealer Enhanced Pull must be different than the consumer pull because there's no note of a repo for the charge-off I have from WFDS (formerly Wacovia), but this is the third time somebody has asked me about the repo (it wasn't) of my SRT-4.

 I guess you could say it was a voluntary repo but either they pick it up, or the body shop conducts a lein sale, the choice was theirs, it was out of my hands at that point (I had made my car payment that month and hadn't driven it in two and half months!). I can not be blamed for a slow paying insurance company and racking up "storage" fees when the body shop was EMPTY; remember this was at the height of the financial crisis and car sales tanked.

 Anyway my rate doubled, final number I don't know but my payment went up about $60 so my best guess is about 12.5%, not horrible but not what I was told before I started making plans to pick it up.

 We'll see if there's more "wiggle" room to maybe knock off $5-$10 off it. Oh this is the Internet Sales Division by the way.

 Just as my insurance no longer gets the California Good Driver Discount and loan my rates go up 20%; I can't keep having "increases" all over the place. If I had any down it got swallowed up by my increased insurance (up $58 from last time) and plane ticket increase from $135 to $189 one way.

 Yes I have to jump on a plane, you wouldn't believe how hard it is to get a manual transmission Hyundai Accent Sport (formerly SE) in California.