AZEO detail clarification

[Anonymous]

---

@SouthJamaica wrote:

---

@W261w261 wrote:

I've seen this both ways so am asking those that know if there is a concensus:

I am an AU on two store accounts. I have been keeping 5 or 10 on one account or the other each month, but not both. Is one account sufficient, or should the balance be on both?

Also, I didn't know that the one account (other than the AU) should be a bank and not a 

CU. Assuming this is true, what is the reason? I know banks and CU's are different animals. 

---

1.  There has been some recent evidence to suggest that for people who have an AU card, there might be not one but two all zero penalties, one for the cards on which they are the principal, and one for cards on which they are AU's.  I must admit I was, and maybe still am, skeptical about it, but there is an authorized user on one of my accounts, so I compared the AU's scores with and without a $10 balance repoted on the account, and lo and behold the result seemed to confirm the theory.

2.  There has also been discussion to the effect that store cards and credit unions are not counted for purposes of the All Zero penalty.  I am skeptical about this one as well, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

---

1. This theory has been proven multiple times. I have a 12-15 point drop on my profile if my AU card reports a 0 balance and that is with 10 other cards reporting. There is evidence that supports there is an anti-abuse algorithm (that we aren't sure how it works) that can discount AU cards for scoring purposes. If a card is discounted by this algorithm an AU AZ loss will not occur.

[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@SouthJamaica wrote:

---

@W261w261 wrote:

I've seen this both ways so am asking those that know if there is a concensus:

I am an AU on two store accounts. I have been keeping 5 or 10 on one account or the other each month, but not both. Is one account sufficient, or should the balance be on both?

Also, I didn't know that the one account (other than the AU) should be a bank and not a 

CU. Assuming this is true, what is the reason? I know banks and CU's are different animals. 

---

1.  There has been some recent evidence to suggest that for people who have an AU card, there might be not one but two all zero penalties, one for the cards on which they are the principal, and one for cards on which they are AU's.  I must admit I was, and maybe still am, skeptical about it, but there is an authorized user on one of my accounts, so I compared the AU's scores with and without a $10 balance repoted on the account, and lo and behold the result seemed to confirm the theory.

2.  There has also been discussion to the effect that store cards and credit unions are not counted for purposes of the All Zero penalty.  I am skeptical about this one as well, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

---

1. This theory has been proven multiple times. I have a 12-15 point drop on my profile if my AU card reports a 0 balance and that is with 10 other cards reporting. There is evidence that supports there is an anti-abuse algorithm (that we aren't sure how it works) that can discount AU cards for scoring purposes. If a card is discounted by this algorithm an AU AZ loss will not occur.

---

I am curious about this.   So let's say a person has no AU accounts but only primary accounts.    Then at some point their spouse, living at the same address (avoiding the possible fraud discount) adds this person as an AU on his or her account.   And let's say the new added AU card, the only one on the record, has a zero balance, will our cardholder take a many point hit for being added to a zero balance AU card?     I would be shocked if this happened unless the added AU account brought down the AAoA or something else.    

I can't test this because even though I have four AU accunts, my friend who has the 1993 card uses it every month.    She's retired from Chase. But it usually has around $1000 a month reporting on a $20K limit.   I can't ask her to force it to report zero.   She would think that was nuts.

Can others without any AU accounts have a spouse add you to card with a zero balance and then see if you take a big point hit?

[Anonymous]

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Sandman771 wrote:

---

@blindambition wrote:

Only one AU should report, following the same rule of AZEO.

Yes, it's possible for CU card to report differently. To save you a headache, it's best to use a lender like Citi, WF, any main lender.

---

Thank you @blindambition I never knew  that Cu cards and bank cards reported differently. 

---

Yes actually they do report differently, that's how the insurance algorithms are able to give you additional points for having credit union cards as opposed to bankcards. Although I don't think Elan branded credit union cards count as credit union cards. Lol.

But normally there's no differences for purposes of fico algorithms, but there are a few instances where credit union cards act funky or awkward, so just to avoid any possibility, best recommendation is to use a bankcard unless you have tested your credit union card and know that it works without a problem. I mean the majority work fine, but if its for a mortgage would you want to take a chance?

@W261w261 as for the authorized user card, preferably you want that to be a bankcard too, the one reporting a balance when optimizing 8/9. (When optimizing the mortgage scores, you only want one primary with a balance & no AUs with a balance.)

---

This is great advice.   I have had no problem meeting AZEO (or I should say not losing any points) having any one of my revolvers report, whether it's a CU or a bank or a revolving store card.   I have a different card report each month so they rotate.   Never had any problem.   You can test it but just not when you're doing a mortgage app or something important.   

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished please provide more information about when you did this and had only a retail card as the only card with a balance. You say you did not lose any points?

---

I have all my monthly 3B FICO reports going back to 2014 and my CCT's going back to probably 2016.    I only have one store card left, which is Synchrony Amazon, so I will try to reproduce the effect in the next month and get back to you.   For me, my scores don't care whether I have one, two,  three or four cards reporting.    They just don't move my FICO scores.    

I'm not going to spend hours going through hundreds of reports but I will try it again in the next 30 to 60 days and let you know the effects on each of my FICO scores of having only Amazon report.     It just reported so it will be another month before I can try the experiment.     

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished that would be awesome! Do you know what scorecard youre on? Remind me please. And do you know your AZ loss for this Scorecard?

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@SouthJamaica wrote:

---

@W261w261 wrote:

I've seen this both ways so am asking those that know if there is a concensus:

I am an AU on two store accounts. I have been keeping 5 or 10 on one account or the other each month, but not both. Is one account sufficient, or should the balance be on both?

Also, I didn't know that the one account (other than the AU) should be a bank and not a 

CU. Assuming this is true, what is the reason? I know banks and CU's are different animals. 

---

1.  There has been some recent evidence to suggest that for people who have an AU card, there might be not one but two all zero penalties, one for the cards on which they are the principal, and one for cards on which they are AU's.  I must admit I was, and maybe still am, skeptical about it, but there is an authorized user on one of my accounts, so I compared the AU's scores with and without a $10 balance repoted on the account, and lo and behold the result seemed to confirm the theory.

2.  There has also been discussion to the effect that store cards and credit unions are not counted for purposes of the All Zero penalty.  I am skeptical about this one as well, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

---

1. This theory has been proven multiple times. I have a 12-15 point drop on my profile if my AU card reports a 0 balance and that is with 10 other cards reporting. There is evidence that supports there is an anti-abuse algorithm (that we aren't sure how it works) that can discount AU cards for scoring purposes. If a card is discounted by this algorithm an AU AZ loss will not occur.

---

@Anonymous out of curiosity what is your normal AZ loss? how close is it to your AU AZ loss?

[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Sandman771 wrote:

---

@blindambition wrote:

Only one AU should report, following the same rule of AZEO.

Yes, it's possible for CU card to report differently. To save you a headache, it's best to use a lender like Citi, WF, any main lender.

---

Thank you @blindambition I never knew  that Cu cards and bank cards reported differently. 

---

Yes actually they do report differently, that's how the insurance algorithms are able to give you additional points for having credit union cards as opposed to bankcards. Although I don't think Elan branded credit union cards count as credit union cards. Lol.

But normally there's no differences for purposes of fico algorithms, but there are a few instances where credit union cards act funky or awkward, so just to avoid any possibility, best recommendation is to use a bankcard unless you have tested your credit union card and know that it works without a problem. I mean the majority work fine, but if its for a mortgage would you want to take a chance?

@W261w261 as for the authorized user card, preferably you want that to be a bankcard too, the one reporting a balance when optimizing 8/9. (When optimizing the mortgage scores, you only want one primary with a balance & no AUs with a balance.)

---

This is great advice.   I have had no problem meeting AZEO (or I should say not losing any points) having any one of my revolvers report, whether it's a CU or a bank or a revolving store card.   I have a different card report each month so they rotate.   Never had any problem.   You can test it but just not when you're doing a mortgage app or something important.   

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished please provide more information about when you did this and had only a retail card as the only card with a balance. You say you did not lose any points?

---

I have all my monthly 3B FICO reports going back to 2014 and my CCT's going back to probably 2016.    I only have one store card left, which is Synchrony Amazon, so I will try to reproduce the effect in the next month and get back to you.   For me, my scores don't care whether I have one, two,  three or four cards reporting.    They just don't move my FICO scores.    

I'm not going to spend hours going through hundreds of reports but I will try it again in the next 30 to 60 days and let you know the effects on each of my FICO scores of having only Amazon report.     It just reported so it will be another month before I can try the experiment.     

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished that would be awesome! Do you know what scorecard youre on? Remind me please. And do you know your AZ loss for this Scorecard?

Hi Birdman,

My Amazon statement cuts tomorrow so I will make sure everything else reports at zero for a month.   I'm on the bankruptcy  reporting scorecard.   When I have accidentally had all revolvers report zero I have lost somewhere around 20 points plus/minus depending on the credit bureau.    I will keep you posted when I get all but Amazon reporting zero.   

My one A/U account that's actually used will still be reporting a balance however and I can't control what she does.   As I learned recently with my spouse when the only card he had reporting was an AU from a friend at the same address, and he took the full scoring hit for no revolvers reporting.   That was something I hadn't heard of before.  Stay tuned.

---

[Anonymous]

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Sandman771 wrote:

---

@blindambition wrote:

Only one AU should report, following the same rule of AZEO.

Yes, it's possible for CU card to report differently. To save you a headache, it's best to use a lender like Citi, WF, any main lender.

---

Thank you @blindambition I never knew  that Cu cards and bank cards reported differently. 

---

Yes actually they do report differently, that's how the insurance algorithms are able to give you additional points for having credit union cards as opposed to bankcards. Although I don't think Elan branded credit union cards count as credit union cards. Lol.

But normally there's no differences for purposes of fico algorithms, but there are a few instances where credit union cards act funky or awkward, so just to avoid any possibility, best recommendation is to use a bankcard unless you have tested your credit union card and know that it works without a problem. I mean the majority work fine, but if its for a mortgage would you want to take a chance?

@W261w261 as for the authorized user card, preferably you want that to be a bankcard too, the one reporting a balance when optimizing 8/9. (When optimizing the mortgage scores, you only want one primary with a balance & no AUs with a balance.)

---

This is great advice.   I have had no problem meeting AZEO (or I should say not losing any points) having any one of my revolvers report, whether it's a CU or a bank or a revolving store card.   I have a different card report each month so they rotate.   Never had any problem.   You can test it but just not when you're doing a mortgage app or something important.   

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished please provide more information about when you did this and had only a retail card as the only card with a balance. You say you did not lose any points?

---

I have all my monthly 3B FICO reports going back to 2014 and my CCT's going back to probably 2016.    I only have one store card left, which is Synchrony Amazon, so I will try to reproduce the effect in the next month and get back to you.   For me, my scores don't care whether I have one, two,  three or four cards reporting.    They just don't move my FICO scores.    

I'm not going to spend hours going through hundreds of reports but I will try it again in the next 30 to 60 days and let you know the effects on each of my FICO scores of having only Amazon report.     It just reported so it will be another month before I can try the experiment.     

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished that would be awesome! Do you know what scorecard youre on? Remind me please. And do you know your AZ loss for this Scorecard?

Hi Birdman,

My Amazon statement cuts tomorrow so I will make sure everything else reports at zero for a month.   I'm on the bankruptcy  reporting scorecard.   When I have accidentally had all revolvers report zero I have lost somewhere around 20 points plus/minus depending on the credit bureau.    I will keep you posted when I get all but Amazon reporting zero.   

My one A/U account that's actually used will still be reporting a balance however and I can't control what she does.   As I learned recently with my spouse when the only card he had reporting was an AU from a friend at the same address, and he took the full scoring hit for no revolvers reporting.   That was something I hadn't heard of before.  Stay tuned.

---

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished actually that will be perfect that the AU still has a balance, otherwise there would be the AU AZ loss. The AZ losses are independent and cumulative.

So, the AU your spouse took the full hit for was a primary AZ loss, but had his friend not had a balance on the AU card, he would've taken an additional full hit for the AU AZ loss.

[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

Got it.  Thx.

[iv]

---

@CH-7-Mission-Accomplished wrote:
Can others without any AU accounts have a spouse add you to card with a zero balance and then see if you take a big point hit?

---

It's become harder to see this effect on my scores in recent years (they tend to stay pinned at 850...), but it's still visible from time to time:

This is with three cards of DW's reporting as AUs on my reports. (Two Chase, one Citi.)

Prior to 4/27, both Chase cards were reporting $0 (as they usually do, due to Chase always reporting right after paying the cards to $0.)

On 4/27, the Citi card reported $0, and TU FICO 8 dropped from 850 to 847. (Unknown how much buffer there was over 850...)

On 4/28, both Chase cards reported small balances, and TU FICO 8 jumped back to 850.

It's a very repeatable effect (easier to see on non-maxed scores, though).

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@SouthJamaica wrote:

---

@W261w261 wrote:

I've seen this both ways so am asking those that know if there is a concensus:

I am an AU on two store accounts. I have been keeping 5 or 10 on one account or the other each month, but not both. Is one account sufficient, or should the balance be on both?

Also, I didn't know that the one account (other than the AU) should be a bank and not a 

CU. Assuming this is true, what is the reason? I know banks and CU's are different animals. 

---

1.  There has been some recent evidence to suggest that for people who have an AU card, there might be not one but two all zero penalties, one for the cards on which they are the principal, and one for cards on which they are AU's.  I must admit I was, and maybe still am, skeptical about it, but there is an authorized user on one of my accounts, so I compared the AU's scores with and without a $10 balance repoted on the account, and lo and behold the result seemed to confirm the theory.

2.  There has also been discussion to the effect that store cards and credit unions are not counted for purposes of the All Zero penalty.  I am skeptical about this one as well, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

---

1. This theory has been proven multiple times. I have a 12-15 point drop on my profile if my AU card reports a 0 balance and that is with 10 other cards reporting. There is evidence that supports there is an anti-abuse algorithm (that we aren't sure how it works) that can discount AU cards for scoring purposes. If a card is discounted by this algorithm an AU AZ loss will not occur.

---

@Anonymous out of curiosity what is your normal AZ loss? how close is it to your AU AZ loss?

---

@Anonymous Unfortunately, I have never hit AZ since I started monitoring my credit. I have quite a few cards with promotional balances that won't be paid off for at least another year. I too am curious what the AZ loss would be in comparison to the AU AZ loss, but it will be quite a stretch of time before I can test that.

[Anonymous]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@SouthJamaica wrote:

---

@W261w261 wrote:

I've seen this both ways so am asking those that know if there is a concensus:

I am an AU on two store accounts. I have been keeping 5 or 10 on one account or the other each month, but not both. Is one account sufficient, or should the balance be on both?

Also, I didn't know that the one account (other than the AU) should be a bank and not a 

CU. Assuming this is true, what is the reason? I know banks and CU's are different animals. 

---

1.  There has been some recent evidence to suggest that for people who have an AU card, there might be not one but two all zero penalties, one for the cards on which they are the principal, and one for cards on which they are AU's.  I must admit I was, and maybe still am, skeptical about it, but there is an authorized user on one of my accounts, so I compared the AU's scores with and without a $10 balance repoted on the account, and lo and behold the result seemed to confirm the theory.

2.  There has also been discussion to the effect that store cards and credit unions are not counted for purposes of the All Zero penalty.  I am skeptical about this one as well, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

---

1. This theory has been proven multiple times. I have a 12-15 point drop on my profile if my AU card reports a 0 balance and that is with 10 other cards reporting. There is evidence that supports there is an anti-abuse algorithm (that we aren't sure how it works) that can discount AU cards for scoring purposes. If a card is discounted by this algorithm an AU AZ loss will not occur.

---

@Anonymous out of curiosity what is your normal AZ loss? how close is it to your AU AZ loss?

---

@Anonymous Unfortunately, I have never hit AZ since I started monitoring my credit. I have quite a few cards with promotional balances that won't be paid off for at least another year. I too am curious what the AZ loss would be in comparison to the AU AZ loss, but it will be quite a stretch of time before I can test that.

---

@Anonymous I would assume they're not too far off.