Let's talk dirty (scorecards)

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:
From what I've read by TT for FICO 8 the 4 dirties are split into 2 public record cards and 2 delinquency cards. They are further segmented by age of PR/baddie.

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See my previous post where I quoted TT:

"foreclosures, short sales and bankruptcy are almost certainly a different scorecard than collections and tax liens."

This means the 2 public record cards are further segmented by the seriousness (i.e. collection vs. BK), while the 2 other cards could be segmented by age.

[Revelate]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
From what I've read by TT for FICO 8 the 4 dirties are split into 2 public record cards and 2 delinquency cards. They are further segmented by age of PR/baddie.

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See my previous post where I quoted TT:

"foreclosures, short sales and bankruptcy are almost certainly a different scorecard than collections and tax liens."

This means the 2 public record cards are further segmented by the seriousness (i.e. collection vs. BK), while the 2 other cards could be segmented by age.

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If it doesn't have specific reason codes it seems unlikely that it's different honestly, though TT does follow the FICO marketing material far closer than I do.

I thought it's just the one reason code though:  You have a public record and/or collection on your credit report.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, PR is PR, age is what separates it from my understanding. I'll look for the post I read by TT,

I think tax liens fall under the delinquency cards. Judgments are no longer reported by the CRAs.

[Anonymous]

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@Revelate wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
From what I've read by TT for FICO 8 the 4 dirties are split into 2 public record cards and 2 delinquency cards. They are further segmented by age of PR/baddie.

---

See my previous post where I quoted TT:

"foreclosures, short sales and bankruptcy are almost certainly a different scorecard than collections and tax liens."

This means the 2 public record cards are further segmented by the seriousness (i.e. collection vs. BK), while the 2 other cards could be segmented by age.

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If it doesn't have specific reason codes it seems unlikely that it's different honestly, though TT does follow the FICO marketing material far closer than I do.

I thought it's just the one reason code though:  You have a public record and/or collection on your credit report.

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"You have a short credit history." is used on multiple clean and dirty cards, so why is it unlikely that "You have a public record and/or collection on your credit report."  would be used on two of the dirty cards?

I also found a post you made a couple years ago, and it looks like AoYA does matter for the cleanest of the four dirty cards.  You said you had a 60D (and 30D) on your file, and were getting "You opened a new credit account relatively recently." after your tax lein was removed.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Reason-code-variation-based-on-scorecard/m-p/4948495

[Revelate]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Revelate wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
From what I've read by TT for FICO 8 the 4 dirties are split into 2 public record cards and 2 delinquency cards. They are further segmented by age of PR/baddie.

---

See my previous post where I quoted TT:

"foreclosures, short sales and bankruptcy are almost certainly a different scorecard than collections and tax liens."

This means the 2 public record cards are further segmented by the seriousness (i.e. collection vs. BK), while the 2 other cards could be segmented by age.

---

If it doesn't have specific reason codes it seems unlikely that it's different honestly, though TT does follow the FICO marketing material far closer than I do.

I thought it's just the one reason code though:  You have a public record and/or collection on your credit report.

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"You have a short credit history." is used on multiple clean and dirty cards, so why is it unlikely that "You have a public record and/or collection on your credit report."  would be used on two of the dirty cards?

I also found a post you made a couple years ago, and it looks like AoYA does matter for the cleanest of the four dirty cards.  You said you had a 60D (and 30D) on your file, and were getting "You opened a new credit account relatively recently." after your tax lein was removed.

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/Reason-code-variation-based-on-scorecard/m-p/4948495

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I had forgotten about that on TU04, good catch.  Oddly though I don't have that now whereas I have plenty of new accounts in the last year.  I'll have to find that old report and compare more concretely.

As for "You have a short credit history" is because it means exactly the same thing on all scorecards: AAOA.

If BK's were not equivalent to collections from at least a segmentation perspective, they'd have a different reason code is my point, not that the specific reason code can't exist on multiple different derogatory scorecards.

[Aspireto850]

Where does a charge off fall within the dirty scorecards?

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I've been reading a lot about scorecards, and I think the dirty ones are a bit simpler.  A few years ago there seemed to be some questions about what put you on a dirty scorecard, the concensus now is that a single 60D late keeps you on a dirty card.

AoYA doesn't impact dirty cards.  AZEO doesn't help dirty scorecards either.

I'm on a dirty scorecard and I would say neither of the statements immediately above are consisent with my experience.  I saw a definite bump on my scores when my AoYA recently bumped past 3 months.  I also have seen score improvement with AZEO.  I track all my metrics closely and there would be nothing else to attribute my score shifts to.

I've read a couple posts suggesting single-card utilization thresholds are higher on dirty scorecards too (49% instead of 29%).  Has that been confirmed for FICO-8?

Even on a dirty scorecard, you can still have a very good score.  The highest reported score on a dirty card I've seen is 780.  With a bankruptcy, which probably puts you on the worst scorecard, I've seen a report of 747.

Having an installment loan reporting <9% is supposed to help even dirty scorecards.  Is there any benefit over 9?  For example, is an installment loan at 29% better for FICO-8 than an installment loan at 90%?

I've read some theories, but nothing conclusive regarding the segmentation factors for the dirty cards.  I think it's safe to assume that a BK and collection will put someone on the worst of the 4.  I read a post by T_T from 2 years ago suggesting age is a factor, with an aged minor derog giving the least-bad dirty scorecard.  Is there any conclusive data on the segmentation factors for the dirty cards?

Is there anything else special about dirty scorecards?  By special I mean some factor that impacts your score on a dirty card but doesn't on the clean cards, or vice versa.

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[Revelate]

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@Aspireto850 wrote:

Where does a charge off fall within the dirty scorecards?

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7 years generally though might get whacked earlier based on the pattern of lates that lead up to it.  

Doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency between the bureaus with the exclusion of lates but all of mine were taken care of by the 7 year mark and a CO notation should be similar.

[Anonymous]

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@Revelate wrote:

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If BK's were not equivalent to collections from at least a segmentation perspective, they'd have a different reason code is my point, not that the specific reason code can't exist on multiple different derogatory scorecards.

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As someone who has written software, I can think of a simple counter-argument.  The "public record" reason code existed in previous FICO versions, where it likely was specific to one of the two dirty cards.  For FICO08, having two dirty cards for public records, it's easiest to use the existing reason code for two cards instead of removing the old one and creating two new ones.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

I've been reading a lot about scorecards, and I think the dirty ones are a bit simpler.  A few years ago there seemed to be some questions about what put you on a dirty scorecard, the concensus now is that a single 60D late keeps you on a dirty card.

AoYA doesn't impact dirty cards.  AZEO doesn't help dirty scorecards either.

I'm on a dirty scorecard and I would say neither of the statements immediately above are consisent with my experience.  I saw a definite bump on my scores when my AoYA recently bumped past 3 months.  I also have seen score improvement with AZEO.  I track all my metrics closely and there would be nothing else to attribute my score shifts to.

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What exactly has you on a dirty card? Previous bankruptcy, collection, charge-off, or just an old 60+D?