Amex getting tougher on SUBS

[redpat]

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@simplynoir wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Not that I SD'd them, but I definitely don't use them exclusively. I feel like a schmuck pulling out the PRG to pay for a Mocha, feels like overkill. lol

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What a curious feeling there lol. I don't feel the same when I use a card like the Platinum to pay for a bag of chips.

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+1

$2.13 for my coffe today on my Hilton card and EDP yesterday to get over 30 swipes. 

Don't feel like a schmuck, 2.13 x 4 x 52 = $443 is $11 in value hilton or $13 value of MR, which is better than 0 w/ cash.

[NRB525]

I think many if not most commenters are misreading what AMEX is saying.

It is not mainly about denying the bonus right away, especially on a first card. What it is addressing is pattern watching, looking for those who open the Platinum, get the bonus, use the MR, then close the card in two months. Do this on several cards and they will start to claw back or deny new SUB.

Keep cards open and used ( even lightly ) for more than 12 months, and one should have no issues. There is a certain “try it out” time that is allowed here.

I like the language, although many new customers may look at it and think “I could do that? Close it before a year?” Spreading the info about how churning works.

[Anonymous]

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@NRB525 wrote:
I think many if not most commenters are misreading what AMEX is saying.

It is not mainly about denying the bonus right away, especially on a first card. What it is addressing is pattern watching, looking for those who open the Platinum, get the bonus, use the MR, then close the card in two months. Do this on several cards and they will start to claw back or deny new SUB.

Keep cards open and used ( even lightly ) for more than 12 months, and one should have no issues. There is a certain “try it out” time that is allowed here.

I like the language, although many new customers may look at it and think “I could do that? Close it before a year?” Spreading the info about how churning works.

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While I largely agree, it does mean that we have to trust the issuer to do the right thing.   And there's no guarantee that if say profits slumped, this language could be used to deny more SUBs.    And, we see lots of stories here where Amex (and of course others) claim that the link used to apply wasn;t eligible for a particular SUB so things are not always smooth.

I guess Chase recently started including similar language, about losing points, for several reasons including:  "by repeatedly opening or otherwise maintaining credit card accounts for the purpose of generating rewards "   They would close the account though.

[Anonymous]

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@NRB525 wrote:
I think many if not most commenters are misreading what AMEX is saying.

It is not mainly about denying the bonus right away, especially on a first card. What it is addressing is pattern watching, looking for those who open the Platinum, get the bonus, use the MR, then close the card in two months. Do this on several cards and they will start to claw back or deny new SUB.

Keep cards open and used ( even lightly ) for more than 12 months, and one should have no issues. There is a certain “try it out” time that is allowed here.

I like the language, although many new customers may look at it and think “I could do that? Close it before a year?” Spreading the info about how churning works.

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And if many people are mis-reading what AMEX is trying to say - the written langauge is terrible. There's no information regarding who exactly doesn't qualify for a sign up bonus, but it's only up to "AMEX's discretion" which is a load of bs. The language is way too broad and gives AMEX the ability to make any excuse they want to not give the sign up bonus, including, "because we can." 

I understand churning is costly for banks, but they need to clarify who does and who does not qualify for a sign up bonus, up front. If you advertise a bonus, pay it, or point out the exact terms of who doesn't qualify. "Discretion" is bogus and should result in a lawsuit. 

[Anonymous]

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@MrDisco99 wrote:
So how am I supposed to know if I’m eligible for a bonus or not? I’m supposed to just app and hope for the best and just assume it’s my fault if they decide not to award me?

Oh well... it was fun while it lasted.

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Right, and that's exactly the problem. 

I hope they get sued when people don't get their sign up bonuses. 

[redpat]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@MrDisco99 wrote:
So how am I supposed to know if I’m eligible for a bonus or not? I’m supposed to just app and hope for the best and just assume it’s my fault if they decide not to award me?

Oh well... it was fun while it lasted.

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Right, and that's exactly the problem. 

I hope they get sued when people don't get their sign up bonuses. 

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I wouldn't hold my breath, it just won't happen.  They know more than you think, they are tired of all the BS of churning and gaming points.  Most won't even care about this, I know I don't. 

If I started closing my amex cards and get non-lifetime offers and began to reload I should know better.  

[Anonymous]

Yeah, this won't affect me since I don't have any new AMEX cards and have received all of my sub bonuses. However, I will say that I feel for people who may be mis-categorized as a "churner" by AMEX and not get the bonus when they are actually just a regular customer. That won't be fair.

Regardless, I think AMEX's customer service is pretty good and if they unfairly withhold your bonus, I would definitely call and ask to speak to a supervisor and make them give a valid reason/evidence why you were not awarded the sub bonus. Chances are they will blame it on the computer and give it to you anyways.

[MrDisco99]

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@redpat wrote: 

If I started closing my amex cards and get non-lifetime offers and began to reload I should know better.  

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Why? Are we to assume they don't actually want us to take the offers they send us?

[red259]

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@NRB525 wrote:
I think many if not most commenters are misreading what AMEX is saying.

It is not mainly about denying the bonus right away, especially on a first card. What it is addressing is pattern watching, looking for those who open the Platinum, get the bonus, use the MR, then close the card in two months. Do this on several cards and they will start to claw back or deny new SUB.

Keep cards open and used ( even lightly ) for more than 12 months, and one should have no issues. There is a certain “try it out” time that is allowed here.

I like the language, although many new customers may look at it and think “I could do that? Close it before a year?” Spreading the info about how churning works.

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Except that is NOT what this says. You are just assuming this is how Amex will act, but their rule change is incredibly vague and ripe for abuse. Nobody other than Amex knows how they will put this into practice. You could be right or you could be wrong. We have no idea. All anyone can do is speculate, but I think its appropriate to call Amex out for using such broad and vague language that can confuse customers.

[NRB525]

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@red259 wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:
I think many if not most commenters are misreading what AMEX is saying.

It is not mainly about denying the bonus right away, especially on a first card. What it is addressing is pattern watching, looking for those who open the Platinum, get the bonus, use the MR, then close the card in two months. Do this on several cards and they will start to claw back or deny new SUB.

Keep cards open and used ( even lightly ) for more than 12 months, and one should have no issues. There is a certain “try it out” time that is allowed here.

I like the language, although many new customers may look at it and think “I could do that? Close it before a year?” Spreading the info about how churning works.

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Except that is NOT what this says. You are just assuming this is how Amex will act, but their rule change is incredibly vague and ripe for abuse. Nobody other than Amex knows how they will put this into practice. You could be right or you could be wrong. We have no idea. All anyone can do is speculate, but I think its appropriate to call Amex out for using such broad and vague language that can confuse customers.

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Here is your examples list. All of these situations, I would have no problem saying AMEX would be correct to deny / take back / say "no more" to SUB:

for example, if you applied for one or more cards to obtain a welcome offer (s) that we did not intend for you; if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it; or if you cancel or return purchases you made to meet the Threshold Amount),

The reactions here are from people who want to get a string of sign-up bonuses. That is still possible, one must simply be slower in applying for cards, get some use out of a card, and make the action of closing and getting new cards look more like a sincere shopping project, rather than a harvest.