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Inquiry categories and binning

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Super Contributor

Inquiry categories and binning

@ImTheDevil and I were discussing how fico categorizes hps into CC, mortgage and non-mortgage loan categories. If we hope to find bin thresholds, we must begin tracking and reporting scoreable inquiries in their respective categories. Thoughts?

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 1 of 41
40 REPLIES 40
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Senior Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning

I'd love to know more.  I'll be watching this.  I have 16 on Exp and haven't suffered for at least 6 of those.  I have 3 about to fall off and am wondering what will happen in 6 days.  Nov, 2 more. April, 4 more.

”MY TAKE HOME PAY DON’T TAKE ME HOME”
Message 2 of 41
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Senior Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning

Pushed button too soon...so is that why my fico 8 doesn't always take a hit? Because maybe some of those Exp hp's are from the Mortgage fico or whatever else their is?

”MY TAKE HOME PAY DON’T TAKE ME HOME”
Message 3 of 41
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Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning

Edited

 

OK so the algorithm divides scoreable inquiries into at least 5 categories I believe: "credit card/non-loan", "mortgage", "auto", "Student Loan" (SL) and "other loans" from my understanding.


Now I don’t know if there are bins inside each of those categories or only inside some of them. I do know that except for "credit card/non-loan" and maybe "other loans," we will have to take into account de-duplication and buffering logic.

 

De-duplication groups mortgage, auto, and SL inquiries and then combines to 1 all those occurring within 45 day windows for scoring purposes. 

Bufferring occurs with the same inquiry types as deduplication and, for scoring purposes, ignores those inquiries occurring within the last 30 days. 

 

I am assuming apartment, security service, and other miscellaneous non-loan hard inquiries will code in the same category as CCs, as they are requests for credit with no known de-dupe or buffering logic. I am also assuming only auto, mortgage and SLs have de-dupe and buffering logic. I find no documentation indicating other loan types have this logic. We may find some of these assumptions incorrect. But we have to start somewhere. 

So one would say maybe:

 

TU- 4 inq: 2CC, 1Mt, 3 Auto (1 de-duped)


EQ- 6 inq: 3CC, 1Mt, 2 Auto (1 deduped), 1SL


EX- 6 inq: 2CC, 1Mt, 2 Auto (1 deduped), 1SL, 1PL or other loan. 

Maybe a format something like this but we’re going to have to keep track of how many scoreable inquiries are within each of those categories if we ever hope to understand where the thresholds for bins are.

 

Edited 9-26-20 2:34pm

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 4 of 41
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Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@Birdman7 wrote:

@ImTheDevil and I were discussing how fico categorizes hps into CC, mortgage and non-mortgage loan categories. If we hope to find bin thresholds, we must begin tracking and reporting scoreable inquiries in their respective categories. Thoughts?


Most of my inquiries appear to be designated as "installment loan inquiries" even though they are usually for other things -- applying for (a) a credit union deposit account, or (b) a credit card.


Total revolving limits 653000 (575000 reporting)

Message 5 of 41
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Valued Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@Birdman7 wrote:
OK so the algorithm divides scoreable inquiries into credit card, mortgage, and non-mortgage loan from my understanding. Now I don’t know if there are bins inside each of those categories or only inside some of them. I do know that except for credit card inquiries, we will have to take into account de-duplication.

so one would say at TU I have 1 mortgage inquiry, 2 loan inquiries, de-duplicated, three not de-duplicated and 2 CC inquiries.

Maybe inq-
TU-2CC, 1Mt, 3Ln (2de-dupped)
EQ-3CC, 1Mt, 0Ln
EX-2CC, 1Mt, 1Ln

Maybe a format something like this but we’re going to have to keep track of how many scoreable inquiries are within each of those categories if we ever hope to understand where the thresholds for bins are.

You forgot about HP for apartments, employment, utilities, etc. I believe those are not classified under the groups you listed. 

Also auto HP are deduped like mortgage HP where HP for other types of loans are not deduped (to the best of my knowledge)

Scores hover around 800
Haven't been AZEO in over a year
Rome was not built in a day, neither is a good credit profile
Message 6 of 41
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Senior Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning

What's de-duplication?  

”MY TAKE HOME PAY DON’T TAKE ME HOME”
Message 7 of 41
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Valued Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@GApeachy wrote:

What's de-duplication?  


That for rate shopping where all properly coded HP in a certain time frame "counts" as one by the algorithm 

Scores hover around 800
Haven't been AZEO in over a year
Rome was not built in a day, neither is a good credit profile
Message 8 of 41
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Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@SouthJamaica wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@ImTheDevil and I were discussing how fico categorizes hps into CC, mortgage and non-mortgage loan categories. If we hope to find bin thresholds, we must begin tracking and reporting scoreable inquiries in their respective categories. Thoughts?


Most of my inquiries appear to be designated as "installment loan inquiries" even though they are usually for other things -- applying for (a) a credit union deposit account, or (b) a credit card.


@SouthJamaica right you are, that's actually what started this discussion between @ImTheDevil and I. He just took a hard inquiry for a credit card and it came back as a mortgage pull when it was EQ9, I think?

 

but you make a very valid point there is some coding issues especially with credit unions and there are times when inquiries are going to be miscoded, so it's not gonna be without bumps. 

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 9 of 41
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@dragontears wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:
OK so the algorithm divides scoreable inquiries into credit card, mortgage, and non-mortgage loan from my understanding. Now I don’t know if there are bins inside each of those categories or only inside some of them. I do know that except for credit card inquiries, we will have to take into account de-duplication.

so one would say at TU I have 1 mortgage inquiry, 2 loan inquiries, de-duplicated, three not de-duplicated and 2 CC inquiries.

Maybe inq-
TU-2CC, 1Mt, 3Ln (2de-dupped)
EQ-3CC, 1Mt, 0Ln
EX-2CC, 1Mt, 1Ln

Maybe a format something like this but we’re going to have to keep track of how many scoreable inquiries are within each of those categories if we ever hope to understand where the thresholds for bins are.

You forgot about HP for apartments, employment, utilities, etc. I believe those are not classified under the groups you listed. 

Also auto HP are deduped like mortgage HP where HP for other types of loans are not deduped (to the best of my knowledge)


Edited:

@dragontears employment, insurance and some are soft pulls and don't affect score. See the inquiry section of the Scoring Primer I think it's post 4. Edit: correcting myself: apartment inquiries are not excluded and are HP I believe.

 

De-duplication Occurs for auto and mortgage and SL inquiries, and I don't know for other loans, but as I said they are categorized, again see post 4, Scoring Primer

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 10 of 41
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