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Inquiry categories and binning

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Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning

@CassieCardAny input?

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 21 of 41
Highlighted
Senior Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning

Applying to join a credit union typically results in a HP. You receive the HP regardless of whether or not you apply for a credit product (such as card or loan). This happened to me with PenFed. The HP had a 30 day buffer as evidenced by a delayed score penalty going from 1 to 2 HP on EQ. My understanding is the initial HP is used by the CU if you subsequently apply for a credit card and/or a loan - within a TBD number of months. They won't do another HP during that time period even if apply for a handful of products. The coding as a loan is purposeful, not a mistake.

 

In my case I wanted to join PenFed to gain access to Fico NextGen scores (which only PenFed was still using at the time). I was planning to open a checking account only. However, during the application process I found out there would be a HP involved so I cancelled the application. I still received a HP by mistake but, was able to get it removed because the application was not executed.

 

Not sure all credit unions work the same as PenFed did. However, based on CU related posts  read over the years, the HP coding as a loan and subsequent use for multiple product applications appears to be the norm. Of course, PenFed no longer uses Fico NextGen.

 

BTW - I do believe applications for apartment rentals can be a HP. VantageScore is often pulled in the rental space. I believe my wife received a HP when she co-signed a rental ap with our daughter a few years back.

 

Regarding inquiry binning; going from 0 to 1 HP may not result in a score drop depending on the Fico model and CRA. I saw a shift on BCE Fico 8 but not all EQ Fico versions. Beyond directly impacting score, the presence of a HP appears to increase sensitivity of Fico 04 model scores to % of cards with balances. [I experienced this on EQ score 5 and TU score 4]. I have not had an inquiry on EX since 2005 so I can't speak to effect on EX. Best I can tell, HPs are viewed as credit seeking behavior indicators regardless of cause for the HP.

 

Side note: all my HPs in recent years have been for CLI requests. So, no confounding with a new account shifting me to a different scorecard.

 

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 22 of 41
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@dragontears wrote:

so reading post 4 there is no data that there is only loan vs credit card inquiries..... and I still believe that the "other loan" type of HP are not deduped. 


@dragontears 

 

https://www.fico.com/blogs/skinny-fico-scores-and-inquiries

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 23 of 41
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

Applying to join a credit union typically results in a HP. You receive the HP regardless of whether or not you apply for a credit product (such as card or loan). This happened to me with PenFed. The HP had a 30 day buffer as evidenced by a delayed score penalty. My understanding is that initial HP is used by the CU if you subsequently apply for a credit card and/or a loan - within a TBD number of months. They won't do another HP during that time period even if apply for a handful of products. The coding as a loan is purposeful, not a mistake.

 

In my case I wanted to join PenFed to gain access to Fico NextGen scores (which only PenFed was still using at the time). I was planning to open a checking account only. However, during the application process I found out there would be a HP involved so I cancelled the application. I still received a HP by mistake but, was able to get it removed because the application was not executed.

 

Not sure all credit unions work the same as PenFed did. However, based on CU related posts  read over the years, the HP coding as a loan and subsequent use for multiple product applications appears to be the norm. Of course, PenFed no longer uses Fico NextGen.

 

BTW - I do believe applications for apartment rentals can be a HP. VantageScore is often pulled in the rental space. I believe my wife received a HP when she co-signed a rental ap with our daughter a few years back.

 

 

 


There are many different practices among credit unions.

 

Some do, and some don't, do a hard pull for membership.

 

As to those who do a HP for membership, some do allow that HP to be used for a credit application in the near future, while some take a second HP.

 

PenFed's well established practice used to be that there was a HP for membership, but that that HP would be used for any credit product application during the next 30 days. At present, to the best of my knowledge, PenFed's current practice is in flux and I get the feeling nobody knows exactly what the new policy is. https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Personal-Finance/PenFed-accounts-SP-HP-update/m-p/6094836


Total revolving limits 653000 (575000 reporting)

Message 24 of 41
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@Birdman7 wrote:

@dragontears wrote:

so reading post 4 there is no data that there is only loan vs credit card inquiries..... and I still believe that the "other loan" type of HP are not deduped. 


@dragontears 

 

https://www.fico.com/blogs/skinny-fico-scores-and-inquiries


See pages 15 & 16:

 

https://www.transunion.com/docs/financialServices/FS_ScoresOverview.pdf

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 25 of 41
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@SouthJamaica wrote:

@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

Applying to join a credit union typically results in a HP. You receive the HP regardless of whether or not you apply for a credit product (such as card or loan). This happened to me with PenFed. The HP had a 30 day buffer as evidenced by a delayed score penalty. My understanding is that initial HP is used by the CU if you subsequently apply for a credit card and/or a loan - within a TBD number of months. They won't do another HP during that time period even if apply for a handful of products. The coding as a loan is purposeful, not a mistake.

 

In my case I wanted to join PenFed to gain access to Fico NextGen scores (which only PenFed was still using at the time). I was planning to open a checking account only. However, during the application process I found out there would be a HP involved so I cancelled the application. I still received a HP by mistake but, was able to get it removed because the application was not executed.

 

Not sure all credit unions work the same as PenFed did. However, based on CU related posts  read over the years, the HP coding as a loan and subsequent use for multiple product applications appears to be the norm. Of course, PenFed no longer uses Fico NextGen.

 

BTW - I do believe applications for apartment rentals can be a HP. VantageScore is often pulled in the rental space. I believe my wife received a HP when she co-signed a rental ap with our daughter a few years back.

 

 

 


There are many different practices among credit unions.

 

Some do, and some don't, do a hard pull for membership.

 

As to those who do a HP for membership, some do allow that HP to be used for a credit application in the near future, while some take a second HP.

 

PenFed's well established practice used to be that there was a HP for membership, but that that HP would be used for any credit product application during the next 30 days. At present, to the best of my knowledge, PenFed's current practice is in flux and I get the feeling nobody knows exactly what the new policy is. https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Personal-Finance/PenFed-accounts-SP-HP-update/m-p/6094836


@SouthJamaica you know that's a very good point as to why credit union pulls frequently code as loans. Good info @Thomas_Thumb !

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 26 of 41
Highlighted
Senior Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@SouthJamaica wrote:


There are many different practices among credit unions.

 

Some do, and some don't, do a hard pull for membership.

 

As to those who do a HP for membership, some do allow that HP to be used for a credit application in the near future, while some take a second HP.

 

PenFed's well established practice used to be that there was a HP for membership, but that that HP would be used for any credit product application during the next 30 days. At present, to the best of my knowledge, PenFed's current practice is in flux and I get the feeling nobody knows exactly what the new policy is. https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Personal-Finance/PenFed-accounts-SP-HP-update/m-p/6094836


SJ -

CUs continue to be a mixed bag with membership and use of the membership HP for future credit applications. Have you noticed any difference in coding with CUs relating to length of time between joining and applying for a CC?

 

It would appear ill advised to generalize on HP coding and binning for CU credit card applications. However, I suspect CU loans are always coded as loans - if they do a new HP or use a membership HP.  If the membership were a SP, then a new HP is likely required.

Fico 9: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 8: .......EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Fico 4 .....:. EQ 809 TU 823 EX 830 EX Fico 98: 842
Fico 8 BC:. EQ 892 TU 900 EX 900
Fico 8 AU:. EQ 887 TU 897 EX 899
Fico 4 BC:. EQ 826 TU 858, EX Fico 98 BC: 870
Fico 4 AU:. EQ 831 TU 872, EX Fico 98 AU: 861
VS 3.0:...... EQ 835 TU 835 EX 835
CBIS: ........EQ LN Auto 940 EQ LN Home 870 TU Auto 902 TU Home 950
Message 27 of 41
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning

“For example, FICO will "deduplicate" (or treat as one inquiry) student loan, auto loan and mortgage hard inquiries that occur within a 14- to 45-day window (depending on the type of FICO® Score☉ ). FICO® Scores also won't consider hard inquiries from these types of loan applications that occurred within the last 30 days:”

https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/does-getting-rejected-affect-your-credit-score/
For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 28 of 41
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning

What about other loan types though?
For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 29 of 41
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: Inquiry categories and binning


@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

@SouthJamaica wrote:


There are many different practices among credit unions.

 

Some do, and some don't, do a hard pull for membership.

 

As to those who do a HP for membership, some do allow that HP to be used for a credit application in the near future, while some take a second HP.

 

PenFed's well established practice used to be that there was a HP for membership, but that that HP would be used for any credit product application during the next 30 days. At present, to the best of my knowledge, PenFed's current practice is in flux and I get the feeling nobody knows exactly what the new policy is. https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Personal-Finance/PenFed-accounts-SP-HP-update/m-p/6094836


SJ -

CUs continue to be a mixed bag with membership and use of the membership HP for future credit applications. Have you noticed any difference in coding with CUs relating to length of time between joining and applying for a CC?

 

No. The HP's for membership always seem to be "installment loan inquiries". And the HP's for CC's are almost always "installment loan inquiries" as well, even though neither has anything to do with an installment loan.

 

It would appear ill advised to generalize on HP coding and binning for CU credit card applications.

 

IMHO it's definitely ill advised to generalize on HP coding and binning for CU credit card applications.

 

However, I suspect CU loans are always coded as loans

 

I wouldn't know. I have very little experience applying for loans.

 

- if they do a new HP or use a membership HP.  If the membership were a SP, then a new HP is likely required.

 

Yes definitely.


PS It just occurred to me that HP's in connection with my credit limit increase requests from CU's are also denominated "installment loan inquiries" in most cases.  Is it possible that installment loan inquiries cost less, so the credit unions click off 'installment loan' as the reason?


Total revolving limits 653000 (575000 reporting)

Message 30 of 41
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