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Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

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Regular Contributor

Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

On Aug 25 I had a 772 with EX Overall 8% Credit usage and only negative factor was short account history and the following accounts with balances:

 

BANK OF AMERICA $0 Balance updated Aug 19, 2020 Exceptional payment history
BARCLAYS BANK DELAWARE $1,180 Balance updated Aug 16, 2020 Exceptional payment history
CAPITAL ONE BANK USA  $0 Balance updated Aug 03, 2020 Exceptional payment history
CITIZENS BANK $993 Balance updated Aug 14, 2020 Exceptional payment history
DISCOVER FIN SVCS LLC (AU) $67 Balance updated Jul 24, 2020 Exceptional payment history
DISCOVER FIN SVCS LLC $0 Balance updated Jul 03, 2020 Exceptional payment history
JPMCB CARD(AU)  $0 Balance updated Aug 23, 2020 Exceptional payment history

US BANK $1,110 Balance updated Jul 31, 2020 Exceptional payment history
WF CRD SVC $1,400 Balance updated Aug 18, 2020 Exceptional payment history

 

Sofi Personal $2,340 

nce updated Jul 31, 2020 Exceptional payment history
 
On Aug 26 I have a 756 with EX Overall 7% Credit usage and now negative factors are short account history, high credit usage and the following accounts with balances:
 

BANK OF AMERICA $0 Balance updated Aug 19, 2020 Exceptional payment history
BARCLAYS BANK DELAWARE $1,180 Balance updated Aug 16, 2020 Exceptional payment history
CAPITAL ONE BANK USA N $0 Balance updated Aug 03, 2020 Exceptional payment history
CITIZENS BANK $993 Balance updated Aug 14, 2020 Exceptional payment history
DISCOVER FIN SVCS LLC (AU)  $0 Balance updated Aug 24, 2020 Exceptional payment history (Balances not reported on card this month)
DISCOVER FIN SVCS LLC $0 Balance updated Aug 24, 2020 Exceptional payment history
JPMCB CARD (AU) $0 Balance updated Aug 23, 2020 Exceptional payment history
US BANK $1,110 Balance updated Jul 31, 2020 Exceptional payment history
WF CRD SVC $1,400 Balance updated Aug 18, 2020 Exceptional payment history
 
Sofi Personal loan 
SOFI $2,340 Balance updated Jul 31, 2020 Exceptional payment history
 
The only change I see is that AU Discover card did not post a $67 balance this month due to a dispute on the card, **bleep**? 
 
31 REPLIES 31
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Frequent Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

Looks like you got hit with the AU all-zero penalty. It's absurd, but also easy to recover from. @Birdman7 has posted about it a lot.


Message 2 of 32
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Super Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

What is an AU all zero penalty?

 

I've heard of an all zero penalty, but with at least 3-4 accounts with reported balances that definitely isn't what's going on with the OP.

Message 3 of 32
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Frequent Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

Here's how Birdman explained it in post 3 of the FICO 8 Primer thread:

 

"C. All Zero Penalty- (AU Test included)

 

When all revolvers report $0 balance, there is a scoring penalty of ~10-25 points. If one has AU cards (that are not discounted by the anti-abuse algorithm) and they all report $0 balances, the penalty will also occur, indepedently."

 

There's further discussion of it later in that thread.


Message 4 of 32
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Regular Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@Curious_George2 wrote:

Here's how Birdman explained it in post 3 of the FICO 8 Primer thread:

 

"C. All Zero Penalty- (AU Test included)

 

When all revolvers report $0 balance, there is a scoring penalty of ~10-25 points. If one has AU cards (that are not discounted by the anti-abuse algorithm) and they all report $0 balances, the penalty will also occur, indepedently."

 

There's further discussion of it later in that thread.

 

Well than add another AU tested All 3 AU cards that I am are reporting $0 balance by a dispute on one of the cards (usually shows 1 card with a balance), I didnt think this would affect me as the account holder also has a PLOC ( that I am not on) also reporting $0. Very intresting the reach of All Zero Penalty 


 

Message 5 of 32
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Valued Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

What is an AU all zero penalty?

 

I've heard of an all zero penalty, but with at least 3-4 accounts with reported balances that definitely isn't what's going on with the OP.


There seems to be a separate AZ penalty for AU cards.

 

I collected a bunch of links to posts where this was reported: Evidence/References for "AU cards at Zero = Separate Penalty" 

 

They generally go like this:

 

July 2019: Re: A better understanding of AZEO ?
"There's a fairly odd thing that I and a few other people here have observed with FICO 8 and AU accounts - there appears to be a minor negative effect in some cases if all AU accounts on the report are at $0.
It's as though primary accounts and AU accounts are tracked in two separate groups, with a no-usage (all-zero) penalty applied to each separately." - IV

27 FICO Scores + 3 VS3. MTG (Mortgage), AUT (Auto), and BKC (Bankcard) are scores 5,4, and 2 from the top.

Keeper of the Scrolls of ResilienceEQ FICO Resilience Index Score Leaderboard

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Message 6 of 32
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Super Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

A "minor" negative effect to me would suggest that the penalty is less than that of the AZ penalty associated with [non-AU] revolvers.  If the OP lost 17 points from an AU AZ penalty, that's more or less in line with the penalty associated with AZ on revolvers.

Message 7 of 32
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Valued Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?


@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

A "minor" negative effect to me would suggest that the penalty is less than that of the AZ penalty associated with [non-AU] revolvers.  If the OP lost 17 points from an AU AZ penalty, that's more or less in line with the penalty associated with AZ on revolvers.


That's one single report - 'minor' isn't typical.

 

The range found so far is about -6 to -25. That's why I collected them all into one post there.

 

Here's a few more. These posts also contain reports from others, like -25 under the -16pt drop post:

 

August 2019: My score dropped 14 points and I can't figure out why! 
"The only change on my report was an account that I am an AU on was paid down to $0 from a 6 percent utilization. Is it possible that dropped my score, it is the only thing that changed on my report." - Egaffne2

 

November 2019: Re: 16pt drop on TU when AU CC was paid down to zero, DPs provided
"I've noticed this, too. I have one AU (CAP1 that's not listed in my sig) and whenever it posts a zero balance (and I have balances on my own cards, it doesn't matter whether it's AZEO or more than one) I lose ~15 pts. I think as soon as the AU posts a zero balance, it's almost like the entire AU card is being completely excluded. As soon as I report a balance on the AU card, the points I lost are returned. - Drwaz99

27 FICO Scores + 3 VS3. MTG (Mortgage), AUT (Auto), and BKC (Bankcard) are scores 5,4, and 2 from the top.

Keeper of the Scrolls of ResilienceEQ FICO Resilience Index Score Leaderboard

46 forum members have shared this new credit score. Share yours today!

Message 8 of 32
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Super Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

Sounds like AU AZ vs non AU AZ is more or less equal then.

 

What are the negative reason codes associated with AU AZ?

Message 9 of 32
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Super Contributor

Re: Well explain the 16 pt drop after going from 8% to 7%? And other factors?

They are equal typically, as far as I’ve seen. I have not seen a separate or different negative reason code.
Our FICO scoring wisdom, regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.

Negative Reason Codes/Scoring Factors by CassieCard: Link to Reason Code Chart.

ccquest’s awesome workbook to calculate metrics for you: Link to Workbook.


Oct 2020. Oldest/average varies. (Estimates above.)
Real world maximums for the mortgage scores are:
EQ5-818, TU4-839, EX2-844.



RIP: (Forgive typos, mobile. Everything said is JMHO.)
In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR? AoYA? Etc...
Message 10 of 32
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