FICO Score Stress Indicators/Indexes

[sarge12]

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@K-in-Boston wrote:

I hope @Anonymous's iPhone battery is just as resilient as their score!

I'm not sure why my score really is what it is.  I noted when I became one point more resilient in July that my balances went up, I opened a new credit card, I had a loan that was paid down a bit closed and had a new loan refi reporting; basically everything that causes a normal FICO score to get worse caused this score to get better.  FICO scores get better, this score gets worse.

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I think this score attempts to acheive a goal that is more dependant on data that is not on a credit report. If the goal is to judge how resilient my fico score is to economic downturn of the economy, the 400k in savings I have, and the fact that my income is not derived from a traditional paycheck, but social security. Also my total amount of debt is less than 5% of my savings. The fact that both income, and savings are not part of the data included in a credit report, makes a credit report a weak indicator of my ability to maintain a consistantly high credit score. Savings and assets, minus debt, is what most would consider wealth. Since wealth is not allowed by law to be in a credit report, it can't, and wont be the best indicator of credit profile resilience. A lender can and does absolutely use income and DTI in lending decisions and always has. It is why income verification through paycheck stubs or 4506-T requests are used for mortgage loans or financial reviews. I personally never have and never will agree to a 4506-T request to obtain or keep any credit card. I certainly would not send a copy of my Vangard fiduciary trust statement for a card either. If the issuer does not believe my self reported income to issue me a card or allow me to keep a card, then they can not issue me the card, or cancel my existing card. The number of data breach reports alone will guarantee that I will not supply those items to a credit card issuer, not to mention the fact an issuer may sell access to such data to what they call partners.

[OmarGB9]

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@sjt wrote:

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@OmarGB9 wrote:

Man, I'm in the middle of the pack. It's mainly cause of my recent auto loan for my truck. No regrets though.

2 red flags.

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I bet your Resilience score will go down when your first payment is reported.

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Well I got the loan back in February. Made 1 regularly scheduled payment, 1 extra payment, then got COVID deferral until last month, at which point I made my second regularly scheduled payment along with a second extra payment. These last 2 payments came in before I pulled this score.

[Anonymous]

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@sarge12 wrote:

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@K-in-Boston wrote:

I hope @Anonymous's iPhone battery is just as resilient as their score!

I'm not sure why my score really is what it is.  I noted when I became one point more resilient in July that my balances went up, I opened a new credit card, I had a loan that was paid down a bit closed and had a new loan refi reporting; basically everything that causes a normal FICO score to get worse caused this score to get better.  FICO scores get better, this score gets worse.

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I think this score attempts to acheive a goal that is more dependant on data that is not on a credit report. If the goal is to judge how resilient my fico score is to economic downturn of the economy, the 400k in savings I have, and the fact that my income is not derived from a traditional paycheck, but social security. Also my total amount of debt is less than 5% of my savings. The fact that both income, and savings are not part of the data included in a credit report, makes a credit report a weak indicator of my ability to maintain a consistantly high credit score. Savings and assets, minus debt, is what most would consider wealth. Since wealth is not allowed by law to be in a credit report, it can't, and wont be the best indicator of credit profile resilience. A lender can and does absolutely use income and DTI in lending decisions and always has. It is why income verification through paycheck stubs or 4506-T requests are used for mortgage loans or financial reviews. I personally never have and never will agree to a 4506-T request to obtain or keep any credit card. I certainly would not send a copy of my Vangard fiduciary trust statement for a card either. If the issuer does not believe my self reported income to issue me a card or allow me to keep a card, then they can not issue me the card, or cancel my existing card. The number of data breach reports alone will guarantee that I will not supply those items to a credit card issuer, not to mention the fact an issuer may sell access to such data to what they call partners.

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@sarge12 But one teensy problem. Wealth is not an indicator of whether a person will pay. Wealthy people are some of the ones that burned lenders the most back not long ago. 

Just because you can pay is not indicative that you will. 

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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 Wealth is not an indicator of whether a person will pay. Wealthy people are some of the ones that burned lenders the most back not long ago. 

Just because you can pay is not indicative that you will. 

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+10 for that. In fact, going by what was observed during the Great Recession with mortgages, high income and wealth should actually lower scores. lol Make more, spend more, and end up paycheck to paycheck anyway.

"The CoreLogic data suggest that the rich do not seem to have concerns about the civic good uppermost in their mind, especially when it comes to investment and second homes. Nor do they appear to be particularly worried about being sued by their lender or frozen out of future loans by Fannie Mae, possible consequences of default." (Link)

I like credit scoring the way it is, because it gives a cashier making $16,000 a year an equal opportunity for a good credit rating. Job type and income aren't going to show the moment in time someone decided to take up gambling and incur heavy losses, but the payment/utilization history sure will. It's an early warning system for lenders after all.

[Anonymous]

EQ FICO Resilience Index

Leaderboard as of September 7, 2020

Breaking News

K-in-Boston STILL holds The Golden Chalice! even though Kenro also has a 72. Because 3 FLAGS beats a question mark! Dogbert is still KEEPER of The Golden Sword! for having the lowest/highest/worst/best score ever! The Realm of Resilience has been ROCKED! Lulah arrives with a score of 37 and is now sole possessor of the Gold Key!  FICO issued a press release about this score and it triggered a flurry of articles in the mainstream press. The Washington Post published an article about this 'new score'. Plenty more articles on Google here. Lots of article authors are wondering if/when consumers will be able to obtain their score. lol The first score was submitted to this thread on March 29, 2020. This Resilience Index score is included with a myFICO subscription. It will be shown on the dashboard. And as always - lower rating (higher number) doesn't mean that person has a bad credit profile in any way. This score is really sensitive to balance amounts and it doesn't matter if you have a 600 or 850.

RECORD HOLDER & KEEPER OF THE GOLDEN SWORD!		EQ FICO RESILIENCE INDEX
Dogbert	76	04-03-2020

MEMBER NAME * denotes former award winner see bottom of post	SCORES	RED FLAGS	HIGH SCORE	DATE Click for Individual Profile Data
RESILIENT [1-44]
GOLD KEY WINNER
Lulah	37	0	37	07-24-2020
JWD1980	40	0	40	07-26-2020
Throckmorton's Wife	40	?	40	05-07-2020
LaHossBoss*	43	0	41	08-18-2020
tacpoly	43	0	43	08-14-2020
MODERATE [45-59]
FireMedic1	45	2	45	06-05-2020
PicoFico	45	2	45	04-30-2020
EW800	46	2	46	05-01-2020
Thomas_Thumb	48	2	48	04-07-2020
Tonya-E	47	2	47	08-07-2020
Trudy	49	2	49	06-12-2020
sjt	51	2	47	08-17-2020
Chris865 [OP]	52	2	52	05-23-2020
angelwingz	53	2	53	04-09-2020
KLEXH25	53	2	53	07-26-2020
Credit4Growth	54	2	54	07-30-2020
CassieCard	55	2	53	08-11-2020
LaHossBoss SO	55	2	52	08-18-2020
Dumbee	56	2	56	07-01-2020
Flyingifr	56	2	56	07-21-2020
kilroy8	56	?	56	06-11-2020
TMB_	56	2	56	06-01-2020
sarge12	59	2	59	08-24-2020
SENSITIVE [60-69]
CreditObsessedinFL	61	2	56	08-19-2020
NRB525	63	2	63	04-06-2020
Remedios	63	2	63	06-06-2020
KEEPER OF THE GOLDEN SWORD
Dogbert*	64	2	64	06-25-2020
OmarGB9	64	2	64	08-22-2020
joeyv1985	65	2	64	08-14-2020
Revelate	65	2	63	06-14-2020
Birdman7	66	2	60	08-20-2020
RehabbingANDBlabbing	66	2	66	03-29-2020
Brian_Earl_Spilner	68	2	61	09-07-2020
jayk1	69	?	69	09-05-2020
VERY SENSITIVE [70-99]
Kenro*	72	?	72	05-03-2020
GOLDEN CHALICE WINNER
K-in-Boston	73	3	72	09-04-2020

* FORMER AWARD WINNERS *

MEMBER NAME	AWARD	TROPHY	FOR	DATE Click for Individual Profile Data
Dogbert	GOLDEN CHALICE		Lowest rating: 76	04-03-2020
JWD1980	GOLD KEY		Highest Rating: 40	07-26-2020
Kenro	GOLDEN CHALICE		Lowest rating: 72	05-03-2020
Kenro	GOLDEN SWORD		Record Low Rating: 72	05-03-2020
LaHossBoss	GOLD KEY		Highest rating: 41	04-17-2020
Throckmorton's Wife	GOLD KEY		Highest Rating: 40	05-07-2020

All awards are from this game: Adventure (1980) (Atari 2600) Level 1 play through 

[sarge12]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@sarge12 wrote:

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@K-in-Boston wrote:

I hope @Anonymous's iPhone battery is just as resilient as their score!

I'm not sure why my score really is what it is.  I noted when I became one point more resilient in July that my balances went up, I opened a new credit card, I had a loan that was paid down a bit closed and had a new loan refi reporting; basically everything that causes a normal FICO score to get worse caused this score to get better.  FICO scores get better, this score gets worse.

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I think this score attempts to acheive a goal that is more dependant on data that is not on a credit report. If the goal is to judge how resilient my fico score is to economic downturn of the economy, the 400k in savings I have, and the fact that my income is not derived from a traditional paycheck, but social security. Also my total amount of debt is less than 5% of my savings. The fact that both income, and savings are not part of the data included in a credit report, makes a credit report a weak indicator of my ability to maintain a consistantly high credit score. Savings and assets, minus debt, is what most would consider wealth. Since wealth is not allowed by law to be in a credit report, it can't, and wont be the best indicator of credit profile resilience. A lender can and does absolutely use income and DTI in lending decisions and always has. It is why income verification through paycheck stubs or 4506-T requests are used for mortgage loans or financial reviews. I personally never have and never will agree to a 4506-T request to obtain or keep any credit card. I certainly would not send a copy of my Vangard fiduciary trust statement for a card either. If the issuer does not believe my self reported income to issue me a card or allow me to keep a card, then they can not issue me the card, or cancel my existing card. The number of data breach reports alone will guarantee that I will not supply those items to a credit card issuer, not to mention the fact an issuer may sell access to such data to what they call partners.

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@sarge12 But one teensy problem. Wealth is not an indicator of whether a person will pay. Wealthy people are some of the ones that burned lenders the most back not long ago. 

Just because you can pay is not indicative that you will. 

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I absolutely agree that wealth is not an indicator of whether someone will pay. The last data I saw shows that on average millionaires declare bankruptcy 3.5 times in their lifetime. It is however in my opinion the main contributor to a debtors ability to pay. The fico score itself was devised as a predictor of default on debt. That is not what this resilience index score is claiming to be for. This index is supposedly to indicate the debtors ability to maintain their current credit profile if the economy declines. The truth is that a person who has over 20 times the savings of their debt load is not susceptible to economic declines the same way those who might lose their jobs are. My income is from savings, and SSDI, and does not change when recession hits. I have no job to lose, so any scoring matrix that aims to determine my high scores resilience to an economic downturn is nonsense. The consistently high fico score is highly indicative of responsible use of credit, and I fail to see how an economic downturn that does not decrease my income a cent has any affect on my scores resilience. Normally the person who has their scores drop due to an economic downturn, does so because their income is adversely affected to no longer be able to pay their debts. In my case, the pandemic and recession affected my income only by getting an extra 1200 dollars via the stimulus. If anything my liklihood of default has decreased. This score is affected by having high credit limits and a high number of cards, which makes sense if the recession causes someone to rely on credit to survive the downturn causing a loss of income. If personal income and savings is not adversely affected, that unused available credit is irrelevant to the ability to maintain high credit scores.

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

@Anonymous it's time for me to make a move for that top spot. I'm up to 68 now. High revolving and high installment.

[Anonymous]

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@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:

@Anonymous it's time for me to make a move for that top spot. I'm up to 68 now. High revolving and high installment.

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Updated!

Good luck, but @K-in-Boston is a very formidable opponent!

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:

@Anonymous it's time for me to make a move for that top spot. I'm up to 68 now. High revolving and high installment.

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Updated!

Good luck, but @K-in-Boston is a very formidable opponent!

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It's ok. I know his weakness. Forgetting to use rakuten.

[sarge12]

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@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:

@Anonymous it's time for me to make a move for that top spot. I'm up to 68 now. High revolving and high installment.

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Updated!

Good luck, but @K-in-Boston is a very formidable opponent!

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It's ok. I know his weakness. Forgetting to use rakuten.

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Clue me in @Brian_Earl_Spilner, I am stuck at only 1 point away from being sensitive. I need that point, so I can come here and bragg about how sensitive I have become. I am tired of riding down the center line on this highway to credit resilience hell. I want to cross that line and take aim at oncoming traffic. I have been at the top of the moderate crowd long as I care to. So what is this rakuten you speak of? I am not looking to challenge you and @K-in-Boston , I just want to join the sensitive gang.